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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  History and Archeology (Moderator: David Atherton)  |  Topic: Notre Dame de Paris 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Notre Dame de Paris  (Read 570 times)
PMah
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« on: April 15, 2019, 07:47:32 pm »

The spire, which has been lost, although I believe I heard the statues were removed last week.  September 1993.
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PMah
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 07:51:04 pm »

A few gargoyles, which I cannot yet see on news tv if these were damaged.  I think these are on the north tower.

Please post your photos!
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JBF
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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 09:46:56 pm »

Look on the bright side, maybe they can do some archaeological investigation underneath, while they are rebuilding??  We wouldn't know about the ancient palace in Mosul, if ISIS had not destroyed the mosque.

There is an underground Neo-Pythagorean basilica at Porto Maggiore, Rome, and there is some speculation that there may have been one at Notre Dame.  Perhaps this is an opportunity to find out!

If God gives you lemons, make lemonade Grin  Yes, it is unfortunate that there was a fire, even if it is restored, to me it wouldn't be the same, although I would probably never be able to tell the restoration from the original.
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PeterD
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2019, 04:04:12 am »

The building has been restored/renovated many times over the centuries. So not everything that burnt was 800 years old. The spire in fact dated from the 19th century. A terrible sight, nevertheless.
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Peter, London

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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2019, 08:35:22 am »

PMah is correct, the statues had a lucky escape. The biggest loss will be the stained glass windows I think but I expect that there will be many photographs of those and they will be able to be fully restored.

There is hope for Notre Dame's future, not just because it is such an iconic building, but because several ancient buildings have been saved in the past. In fact the famous Medieval York Minster Cathedral in England suffered a similar devastating fire in 1984 and it has now been beautifully restored, although it took several years and several million pounds. And as JBF mentioned, this fire too enabled archaeologists to discover that the Medieval Cathedral had been built on the foundations of an earlier Norman Cathedral which in turn had been built on the foundations of the Roman Principia in York. Without the fire we would not now know that, I suppose that every cloud has a silver lining.

Alex
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2019, 11:05:08 am »

Very sad, but I am confident they will make it beautiful again.  This morning they said the most important stained glass survived.
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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2019, 11:27:21 am »

As far as an underground Neo-Pythagorean basilica is concerned, that is hypothesized for "Notre Dame de Chartes" not this Notre Dame.  The book I was reading, "Measuring Heaven" talked about both.  Still it seems to me like an opportunity for archaeologists to do some "rescue" archaeology while rebuilding.
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PMah
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« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2019, 03:22:57 pm »

And all this damage and cost likely because some dimwit didn't think "Defense de Fumer" applied to him, didn't use electrician's tape, or didn't feel like waiting around while the tools cooled off.
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JBF
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 09:54:17 pm »

most likely he will live with it the rest of his life.  most people when they do something colosally foolish will feel the regret for it, especially if they hurt others unnecessarily.  Of course, there are some people who won't feel regret.

There are some people who are repeat offenders as far as such foolhardiness is concerned.  They deserve ostracism, but fortunately for them, we don't all get what we deserve.  Maybe fortunately for us all....
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Dominic T
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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2019, 04:37:08 am »



There are some people who are repeat offenders as far as such foolhardiness is concerned.  They deserve ostracism, but fortunately for them, we don't all get what we deserve.  Maybe fortunately for us all....

It reminds me of Herostratus who put fire in the temple of Artemis to become famous.I hope that in Paris, it wasn’t a volontary act.

PS. Oups! I wasn’t suppose to pronounce Herostratus name....my apologies to the ancient greeks...
DT
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JBF
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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2019, 06:10:50 pm »

The ancients had a good idea to doom such filth to obscurity.  Instead the modern media does the opposite and promotes mass shooters or other malcontents to notoriety.  But, it is interesting that such a practice of destruction for the sake of lasting infamy goes back to ancient times, and is not merely a modern phenomenon.
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2019, 02:27:16 pm »

This sort of grandstanding wasn't unknown in the early church; there are several references to 'voluntary martyrs' whose actions weren't encouraged. The only definite detail I can find is that the Synod of Elvira, in Spain, around 305-6, laid down that anyone who was killed for trying to smash an idol was no true martyr, as there was no such precedent in the gospel or among the apostles.
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Robert Brenchley

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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2019, 03:28:19 pm »

In the meantime it seems to have been a short circuit.

Jochen
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PMah
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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2019, 08:10:40 pm »

It will be interesting to find out.     A "short circuit" can be pure happenstance -- a tree branch falls across the power lines, but wiring design and installation play a major part.  That's my "electricians tape" scenario. 
   Old wires, left undisturbed, rarely cause problems.   It's when people start moving them, patching them, pulling them, or putting nails through them that causes trouble.   "I'll just staple this power cord to this beam... that should keep it out of the way. .."
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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2019, 12:28:55 pm »

Yesterday a man with gazoline was caught next to another cathedrial in France. Anyone believe it was accidental with Notre Dame right before Easter? Barbarians already infiltrated and now ruin the Western civilisation, as it had once happened with the Roman Empire.

What is next? Louvre or British Museum?
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Dominic T
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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2019, 02:34:24 pm »

Yesterday a man with gazoline was caught next to another cathedrial in France.

I think it was at St-Patrick’s cathedral in New-York city. But I agree it is scary...
DT
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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2019, 05:29:23 pm »

Man, watching that happen destroyed me. I remember visiting Notre Dame in 2012. I'm so glad they saved so much of what they did.
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2019, 05:19:08 am »

I am glad so little of the church was actually damaged.  From an engineering standpoint, it could have been much worse.  The flying buttresses are designed to keep the walls from pushing out.  The roof helps stabilize that.  My concern was a collapse inwards after the pressure from the ceiling was removed. 
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2019, 03:23:58 pm »

Outward pressure from the roof balanced by inward pressure from the buttresses. So yes, inward collapse would have been possible. The walls must be pretty solid.
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Robert Brenchley

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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2019, 04:12:32 pm »

Dear Friends!

I would like to hear what do you think, that some people think that it is more important to help needy people with the donated money than to rebuild some old walls.

Jochen
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2019, 04:30:26 pm »

Sounds like politics (and religion).  Generally speaking, however, if we wait for all human suffering to stop before we use our creative energies, we’ll never get started with anything.   I think C.S. Lewis spoke about this theme in a lecture entitled “Learning in Wartime.”

I say rebuild.
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2019, 04:34:29 pm »

Sorry Jochen, but I think that question has no relevance on a coin forum.

However, that said, I will answer your question with regard to myself. I donate my own money to the charities that are important to me, whatever charities they may be. What other people might think is of no importance at all.

Alex.
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