Classical Numismatics Discussion
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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Resources  |  Fake Coin Reports, Notorious Fake Sellers, and Discussions (Moderators: maridvnvm, Ilya Prokopov)  |  Topic: Is this parthian coin ok? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Is this parthian coin ok?  (Read 199 times)
Dave B2
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« on: March 13, 2019, 10:16:17 am »

Hi Guys

Is there any Parthian expert who can verify if this coin is authentic or not? There is a lump in front of the bust but not sure if that is normal or not? the weight is 4.08 gram

Dave
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 10:50:59 am »

No one can verify a this coin is authentic here. A cast silver fake can look perfectly authentic in photos. I would however be very surprised to learn this coin is not authentic. I see nothing suspicious.
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Dave B2
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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2019, 12:23:33 pm »

Thanks for Guide. But what can you explain the limp of metal in front of the bust face??

Dave
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2019, 02:51:58 pm »

Let me start with something to think about.  Can you explain why that "lump" would indicate forgery?  What method of forgery would create that "lump"? Is a lump like that an indicator of casting? Is it an indicator of modern dies? If you are going to base doubt of authenticity on some feature of a coin, you should be able to explain what method of forgery it might indicate.

The lump is not very clear in the photo but perhaps it is due to die damage. There are other indications of die wear on the obverse.
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Alwin
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2019, 03:45:03 pm »

This coins seems authentic.
Another example with the same "problem":

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Dave B2
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2019, 04:43:11 pm »

Alwin, Hats off Smiley You found an example very very similar. Is such similarity normal? May I know where you found that coin? Any provenance? I know some fakes casts or transfer die fakes can produce a very similar coins.

As to why the lump makes me doubtful , I think some cast coins could demonstrate a lump due to mold imperfections and faults it is same thing that causes extra metal pearls on some cast coins.

Dave
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Alwin
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2019, 02:47:20 am »

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Sometimes the difference between a cast coin and a damaged die can be not evident. But here, the reverse does not present any sign of a cast coin, so there is no doubt.
Some fake Parthian coins here: http://www.parthika.fr/Faux.html#haut
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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2019, 06:54:55 am »

Alwin, Hats off Smiley You found an example very very similar. Is such similarity normal? May I know where you found that coin? Any provenance? I know some fakes casts or transfer die fakes can produce a very similar coins.

As to why the lump makes me doubtful , I think some cast coins could demonstrate a lump due to mold imperfections and faults it is same thing that causes extra metal pearls on some cast coins.

Dave

Your first reason to suspect it is that it might have been from transfer dies and the second reason is that it might have been cast? That makes no sense at all. If you have a genuine concern, it should be one of the other. If you have both, your ability to authenticate is not well developed enough and you should depend on reputable and expert dealers, or 3rd party authentication. If you find this insulting, don't. I can't play golf well and if someone tells me so, it isn't an insult, just the truth. If I really want to play golf well, I should expect it will take a lot of practice and time. Experts who can accurately authenticate ancient coins have years of experience examining tens of thousands of coins.

Genuine coins are often similar.  Similarity is not an authentication issue unless one of the following applies: (1) The similarity is to a known fake.  (2) The similarity indicates they were cast from the same mold.  (3) The similarity indicates one was used to create a mold for the other. (4) Both coins share features that are not from genuine dies. They are from the same flan flaw(s), strike flaw(s), or post strike flaw(s) that were transferred to the mold or transfer dies used to make the fake. Knowing the difference between flaws that come from the same genuine dies and problem flaws that come from the same mold or transfer die and indicate a fake is not always easy.  

The "lump" is not at all similar to a pearl. A pearl results from an air bubble in the mold. A pearl is spherical.
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Joseph Sermarini
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Dave B2
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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2019, 07:26:53 am »

Sorry maybe I express my concerns wrong and caused confusion. What I meant about similarities is what you mentioned below:

(2) The similarity indicates they were cast from the same mold.  (3) The similarity indicates one was used to create a mold for the other

Does these 2 coins could fall into one of these 2 cases? Sorry if I ask an obvious question . I agree that my expertise is not same level as you guys in this site.

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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2019, 07:33:18 am »

No. The similarity indicates they are two genuine coins. They are not even struck with the same dies.

Look at the dots on the collars. The obverses do not match.

The reverses have different monograms

The style is remarkably similar, which can be expected from genuine coins and indicates authenticity. They also show similar die wear, which is somewhat of a coincidence, but also can be seen as an indicator of authenticity.  An indicator because they indicate similar mint processes and because makers of fakes probably would not have use four different dies and struck enough fakes to wear the dies that much.
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Dave B2
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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2019, 08:44:44 am »

Thanks so much for answer I really appreciate.
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