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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  History and Archeology (Moderator: David Atherton)  |  Topic: Importance of hoards? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Importance of hoards?  (Read 236 times)
JBF
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« on: February 21, 2019, 06:58:25 pm »

What is the importance of hoards?  I mean hoards can be very important for figuring out the relative chronology of coins, and for the travel of coins away from their location of minting.  But, do you have favorite hoards which are favorites for specific reasons?

For example the Melian hoard which probably was deposited during the siege of Melos by Athens.  All the types in the hoard are unique to that hoard, not found anywhere else.  So the hoard can be dated fairly precisely, but since it does not share types with any other hoard, that dating cannot help with dating anything else.  Thucydides wrote about the travesty of Melos, where the Athenians slaughtered all the men, and sold into slavery all the women and children.  Looking at one of these coins, reminds one of the heartless 'might makes right' philosophy of Athens at the time.

One question I have for others,
is that I have heard (Sayles?? book) that some hoards are evidence for the existence of ancient collectors?  Does anyone know any examples of hoards that present such evidence?  If you know of particular references or just what book refers to evidence, that be great to know.
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JamesC11
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2019, 11:32:18 am »

From the historian's point of view, hoards are an "objective" original source.  Very few people would bury or otherwise secrete their capital wealth in order to deceive future historians about events in the hoarder's time.  Jim
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JamesC11
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2019, 12:15:00 pm »

And as to your last question, the Roman poet Martial (?40-104 C. E.) says of "The Miser"           "Folks hiss at me-------but I hug myself----------  -----as I gaze upon my treasured pennies in their box."     Jim                                                     
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JBF
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2019, 07:59:24 pm »

I like anything that give me a better angle of understanding ancient Greek coins.  Including but not limited to the dating.  Especially for Greek, we throw out dates as if they are solid, but really they often rely on relative evidence, this coin was made before that, that coin was after another.  Hoards provide a clear association (or proximity) between coins in antiquity.  I wish the find of every coin could be recorded, of course that would probably have to mean a system like the British treasure trove laws, which will give the finders some recompense for the finds.  Convincing finders to give their finds over to the state out of the goodness of their heart is too much to expect.  From my understanding, hoards are generally not found at archaeological sites.  In any case, hoards are important for relative dating, just like overstrikes and die studies.

The Melos hoard in Inventory of Greek Coin Hoards
#27 Melos, 1907
(672)
Burial: c. 416 BC (Kraay)
contents c. 100 AR Pot hoard
Melos: st.
Disposition: see Kraay record for 84
coins; Leu-Hess March 24, 1959 is now
New York.

(Prospero Catalogue has a few Melian staters in the collection.)

What this brief record does not show is that this pot hoard is
effectively a time capsule from Melos during the siege by the
Athenian navy, which ended in the cruel destruction of Melos,
the slaughter of the men, and the selling of women and children
into slavery.  Thucydides expressly writes the Melian dialogue in
his Peloponnesian History.

Thank you JamesC11 for pointing out the Martial quote, I am not sure collectors are misers, or that misers are collectors.
Yes, my precious..... gol-lum!
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okidoki
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2019, 11:50:01 am »

Two coin treasures found in Limburg indicate that Julius Caesar has actually waged war in our country. Members of the Celtic tribe, the Eburons who lived here at the time, would have hidden their money in the ground for fear of the Roman general.

Part of these coins was found at the end of last year in Sittard-Geleen. Today, Caesar's death, these two new coin treasures have been presented in the Limburgs Museum.

Julius Caesar was already in the Netherlands in his book De Bello Gallico, but there was never more evidence than that. "That is why many historians doubted whether he was really here during the Gallic War. His texts were taken with a grain of salt. It was more regarded as a big name," says Nico Roymans, professor of archeology at the Free University and researcher of coin treasures.

Hiding your money en masse indicated crisis or war.
Nico Roymans, professor of archeology
"These coin treasures, found in various places in Sittard-Geleen, prove that something very bad happened at the time," says Roymans. "The coins come from exactly the same year that Caesar wrote that he was here. The coins date from the year 51 BC. The more coins we find, the more that indicates a large group of people hiding their coins. That strengthens the image that Caesar actually came to war here. "

Julius Caesar connoisseur Jona Lendering finds it an interesting find. "Although of course you can never say for sure that the inhabitants of this area put their money in the ground because of Caesar, we can link the discovery of the coins and the texts from De Bello Gallico," he explains. According to Lendering, it would be "very coincidental" if people hid their money during the same period for completely different reasons. "The massive hiding of your money indicated a crisis or war."

Assassination

Historian Tom Buijtendorp, who wrote the book Caesar in the Low Countries, says he sees these coin treasures as an additional confirmation "or rather a refinement" of the data that already existed about Caesar's murder in our country. "The discovery suggests that Caesar went all the way to the north of Maastricht to destroy the Eburones. Ten years ago people still looked at you crazy when you said Caesar really came to the Netherlands. Finding more art treasures makes the theory that he has been here more likely. "

According to Buijtendorp, this is additional evidence that proves that Caesar has really been booming here in the Netherlands. "The fact that so much money was put into the ground indicates that people were terribly scared. They have been driven out or killed because they have never been able to dig up the money."
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All the Best,
Eric
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http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=37270
okidoki
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2019, 11:56:05 am »

https://nos.nl/artikel/2276116-nieuwe-muntschatten-gevonden-caesar-ging-als-beest-tekeer-in-nederland.html

https://www.1limburg.nl/gallery/158852/80590/eNoly1EKwyAQhOG7zLMh6UMhzVkKYdENFZI11RVaxLtHyet8%252FxQcweWdsWBj0hx5pajetsXgpEhHwlIg3rVinp6vCdXAcVIvpD5I15P001iC4%252Fd4RwbfzPHf1QZR%252FmkLEtt%252BGR6otV7IAyh1
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All the Best,
Eric
There are no strangers, only friends you do not know yet.
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=37270
JBF
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2019, 04:44:53 pm »

Wonderful example how hoards can illustrate and illuminate history.

From what I seem to recall, the deaths of Gauls from Julius Caesar's invasion was in the 100s of 1000s???  Does anybody have good figures for that?  I get a sense that he could be brutal, but I do think that he very well understood that the Republic could not effectively govern an Empire.

Of course there is the paradox that rare coins sometimes survive because they are minted (and buried) in times of trouble, whereas common coins might not since they circulate until worn out in times of peace.
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