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Author Topic: Emperors WITHOUT coins?  (Read 3535 times)

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Offline Paul B4

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Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« on: December 08, 2018, 07:44:00 pm »
Among my collecting goals is to have a coin of every Roman Emperor through the Constantinian Era.
Is there a list of those who did not mint any coins?
Or, a list of emperors who minted at least one coin?

Offline Mark Fox

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2018, 11:15:50 pm »
Dear Paul & Board,

I don't know of any offhand, but we can start one here.  And to begin, I will put forward Avidius Cassius:

https://community.vcoins.com/thecelator/The-Celator-Vol.21-No.08-Aug-2007.pdf

See also my follow-up letter to the editor, which clarifies and corrects a few points made in the article:

https://community.vcoins.com/thecelator/The-Celator-Vol.21-No.10-Oct-2007.pdf

Hope this helps.


Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan   

Offline lawrence c

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2018, 11:29:10 pm »
Probably the best start for you would be to go to Wildwinds coin site which has a list of all the emperors and shows IDs of their coins. This is a go-to site for most collectors. The other bit of advice would be to temper expectations. This particularly is the case if you want to include usurpers and other claimants to the Empire. The coins of some of these figures simply are not available to the "normal" collector. Even the coins of some of the more recognized emperors (such as Gordian I and II) can require a very fat wallet. In any event, it should be enjoyable to see how far you can get.

Offline Paul B4

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2018, 08:16:43 am »
Thank you for the tips and interesting periodical.

Comparing a list of emperors including usurpers with the Wildwinds catalog it was found that the following minted no coins or none have been discovered.  Years of "reign" are included.
Since they ruled for several years, I wonder if Priscus and Constnas II should be on the list.

Corrections are welcomed.

Avidius Cassius - 175
Sabinianus - 240
Silbannacus - 248?  253?
Priscus - 249-252
Licinianus - 250
Ingenus - 258 or 260?
Macrianus Minor - 260-261
Mussius Aemilianus - 261-262
Septimius - 272
Julius Saturninus - 280
Constantius Chlorus - 305-306
Constans II - 409-411

Offline *Alex

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2018, 09:46:30 am »
Constantius Chlorus was Constantius I, Constantine the Great's father. He was Caesar from 293 to 305 and Augustus from 305 to 306.
He should not be on your list as there are plenty of his coins around.

Alex

Offline PeterD

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2018, 11:53:12 am »
Constans II issued coins although they are very rare. Silbannacus is known by one unique coin in the British Museum.

For a comprehensive list of emperors and usurpers see https://www.forumancientcoins.com/historia/rome_gen.htm
Peter, London

Historia: A collection of coins with their historical context https://www.forumancientcoins.com/historia

Offline Callimachus

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2018, 04:35:14 pm »
On the above list: Macrianus Minor. Coins exist with his portrait.  They are not common, but they are not super rare either.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-108361

I think you mean his father, sometimes known as Macrianus Major. He did not issue coins with his own portrait, but chose instead to issue coins with the portraits of his sons Macrianus (minor) and Quietus.

Offline Paul B4

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2018, 08:02:02 pm »
Thank you for the input, corrections and ideas.  The list at https://www.forumancientcoins.com/historia/rome_gen.htm helped update my list of emperors and usurpers.

The reduced list...

Avidius Cassius - 175
Sabinianus - 240
Silbannacus - 248?  253?
Priscus - 249-252
Licinianus - 250
Ingenus - 258 or 260?
Mussius Aemilianus - 261-262
Septimius - 272
Julius Saturninus - 280

SEstiot

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2018, 05:00:05 am »

You may take away Silbannacus and Saturninus from your list. Here are the links to articles I wrote about their coinage (downloadables from the platform Academia.edu):

- Silbannacus : RN 1996 : https://www.academia.edu/1366682/Lempereur_Silbannacus_un_second_antoninien

- Saturninus : HAC VIII, 2002 : https://www.academia.edu/1366662/Le_tyran_Saturninus_le_dossier_numismatique

All the best,
Sylviane Estiot

Offline Paul B4

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2018, 08:22:33 am »
Down to just seven...

Avidius Cassius - 175
Sabinianus - 240
Priscus - 249-252
Licinianus - 250
Ingenus - 258 or 260?
Mussius Aemilianus - 261-262
Septimius - 272

Offline Mark Fox

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2018, 11:41:55 am »
Dear Paul & Board,

You can also tentatively add Bonosus (ca. 280) to your list.  The two specimens in the BnF are clearly tooled barbarous radiates of probably Postumus, based on the observations of others as well as my own.  The very crude pieces attributed to Bonosus that have appeared on the market from time to time are likewise unofficial mint products copying Gallic types.      

If interested, some more information can be found on Bonosus in my articles on the Proculus antoniniani:

https://www.academia.edu/2568897/Yorkshire_detectorists_discover_Proculus_coin

https://www.academia.edu/3737937/Ancient_coin_marks_out_own_path

Since there are coins known of Proculus, then eventually some may be found of Bonosus, but so far no genuine examples have surfaced yet to my knowledge.
  

Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan

Offline OldMoney

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2018, 12:00:46 pm »
Your list may be expanded to between about forty and fifty, perhaps more.
I will have to check, but there are a great many claimants to the throne who
never (as far as anyone knows) proceeded to strike coins in their own name.
[edit: I just had a very quick review of my notes, and the list may number well
into three figures
]

You could probably add Aureolus to your list, even though he struck coins in
the name of Postumus. All examples allegedly in his name have so far been
deemed to be false/fake/etc.

Have a read of the SHA (Scriptores Historiae Augustae) for an overview of the
period covered in those volumes, and many other ancient authors such as Dio,
Suetonius, Ammianus Marcellinus, Herodian, Tacitus, Zosimus, etc., etc.

Alternatively, wait until I (eventually) publish my own work (whenever that may
be!), and read that to your heart's desire. You may have even motivated me
to go back and do some more work on this ever-expanding volume, including
compiling a more-or-less "full" list of usurpers, etc. (rather than simply recording
them in file/sequence)
.

- Walter

P.S. Ingenuus has two "u"s, and may also be spelled "Ingebus" depending on
the source. It was Macrianus Senior who is believed not to have had any coins
struck in his own name, instead striking in the (same) name of his son, Junior.
FYI: Aureolus was the general who defeated both Macrianus Snr & Jnr.
Coins of Ephesus
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Walter Holt's Old Money - Ancient Coins
https://www.oldmoney.com.au
Sydney, Australia

Offline Mark Fox

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2018, 12:04:24 pm »
Hello again Paul and Board,

I should also add that Aureolus (268) is believed to have been responsible for the curious Milan emissions of antoniniani struck in the name of Postumus, presumably during the later stages of his rebellion against Gallienus.  I believe the alleged gold aurei that bear his name and image are discounted as old forgeries, so it might be a trickier matter in deciding if Aurelous belongs on your list or not.


Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan

Edit:  A little slow in posting... Sorry for repeating some of Walter's points.

Offline Paul B4

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2018, 02:47:07 pm »
Update...

Avidius Cassius - 175
Sabinianus - 240
Priscus - 249-252
Licinianus - 250
Ingenuus - 258 or 260?
Macrianus Major - 260-61 - minted coins with his son's image.
Mussius Aemilianus - 261-262
Aureolus - 267-268 - even though he struck coins in the name of Postumus. All examples allegedly in his name have so far been deemed to be false/fake/et
Septimius - 272
Bonosus - 280

In addition:  a great many claimants (may number into three figures) to the throne who never (as far as anyone knows) proceeded to strike coins in their own name.

Thanks go to all who have helped.


Offline Blindado

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2018, 05:53:57 pm »
Paul 84: Regarding your goal mentioned in the OP, if you limit your criterion to emperors that actually ruled in Rome, you can achieve your aim, as I did (https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1107), with the exception of Silbannacus, who is known to exist from less than a handful of coins. I included rulers in the east when the empire was formally divided. This saves you from needing to obtain Gordian I and II, for example. I've picked up usurpers when the opportunity has arisen.  Just a thought.

Offline suarez

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2019, 09:19:07 pm »
That is a skinny list indeed, Historia Augusta has a section that lists 30 just in the mid-3rd century alone and in most cases they're just names. Going from memory... Ballista, Piso, Trebellianus(sp?), Firmus, a duo Ammandus & Aelian. Proculus would have figured on that list til recently and Domitian II was doubtful til the hoard find from a few years ago. You can add Silvanus who rebelled against Constantius II. Some dude named Marcus rebelled against Honorius per Zosimus. An empress who went at it alone, Victoria, according to HA and the only one among these that specifically mentions there being coins made for. And Ricimer, Aetius were de facto emperors.

This is just the tip o' the iceberg.

You can delete from your list Constans II whose coinage is well recorded and Macrianus Sr. on account that he refused the imperial title outright, immediately ceding it jointly to his kids.

Ras

Offline Paul B4

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Re: Emperors WITHOUT coins?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2019, 09:23:37 pm »
Thank you Blindado and Suarez.
Love the details.

 

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