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Author Topic: Byzantine Hyperpyron ID Help  (Read 878 times)

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Offline Jared B

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Byzantine Hyperpyron ID Help
« on: October 23, 2018, 10:09:58 am »
Hello everyone. This is my first post to the forum. I started collecting coins about 4 years ago, and this site and its forum has been a really great source of information. Thank you!

Every purchase before has been through a trustworthy site and authenticated, however right now I'm traveling around for some time. I came across some ancient numismatics in Montenegro, and purchased a gold Byzantine hyperpyron, for less than collectors value because of the jewelry hole. I was hoping to get some opinions from those on this forum on which emperor this coin was struck under, and maybe even if its real or fake, though I believe it is true. I've done a good deal of researching the web myself, and have come to think it is either John II Komnenos Thessalonica mint, or John III Doukas-Vatatzes.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

Offline Jared B

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Re: Byzantine Hyperpyron ID Help
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2018, 10:18:37 am »
I forgot to mention the coin weighs about 4.20 grams and has a diameter of 2.7cm.

Offline Simon

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Re: Byzantine Hyperpyron ID Help
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2018, 03:27:07 pm »
I have been studying these types recently, I cannot answer your question with any certainty because I am just learning about them as well.

The coin was originally issued by John II both in Constantinople and Thessalonica, the squat look of the figures seem to be in the style of Thessalonica and that was imitated by John III AND the Latin rule of Constantinople.

When I was reading about the newer find of the Latin imitation it mentioned a star but on the emperors side, yours has it on the Christ side. It was only at 16 1/2 carats.

The original John II issues were 20 carats and the imitations by John III were at 18 carats.  The most current article on the issues stated the only sure way to determine John II or John III is by the purity of the gold. 18 or 20.

Again, I am just learning right now and I am sure you might get better information from other board members.  My search for knowledge about the issue started when I purchased a John III that I was certain that it was John II, however from what I have read it cannot be proved visually.

Simon



https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5633 My main collection of Tetartera. Post reform coinage.

Offline Simon

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Re: Byzantine Hyperpyron ID Help
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2018, 10:31:19 am »

When I was reading about the newer find of the Latin imitation it mentioned a star but on the emperors side, yours has it on the Christ side. It was only at 16 1/2 carats.


 To correct what I wrote it turns out this is not a key o identity, I saw a star noted in DOC for  a coin for John III as well. So it is not a true clue. However the Latin issue did not become known until a decade after the DOC IV was printed.

These issues are really confusing.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5633 My main collection of Tetartera. Post reform coinage.

Offline Jared B

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Re: Byzantine Hyperpyron ID Help
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2018, 04:28:26 pm »
Okay, very interesting information. Thank you for the response Simon. Seems like I may have to wait until I'm back from the travels and have the gold assessed.

 

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