Improper Fit of Ancient Coins in NGC Holders

[Kevin D]

Improper Fit of Ancient Coins in NGC Holders...anyone else noticed this? Any stories or examples of coins being too big for the opening and as a result the prongs being severely bent and pushed into the hard plastic window? I have a large bronze that should have been in a 'fat' holder, but was put into a normal holder, which now has its windows (both sides) bulging outwards as a result of the coin pressing so hard on them.

I do value NGC's expertise when it comes to grading surface quality, but I would like to get the few slabs I have converted to a non-slab 'photo certificate'.

Any thoughts? Any links to discussions on this subject?

[Kevin D]

The image below shows the reverse of a drachm of Sinope in an NGC holder. All four holder insert prong tabs are severely bent outwards because the coin is too thick for the prong slots. The top left tab is the only one that is not touching the hard plastic window; the other three tabs are pressing against the window and the area of contact is seen as a different color/wrinkle at the tab ends. I removed this coin from the slab and put it in a Saflip. Once removed, I did not see any damage from the NGC holder on this coin.

Below is a link to a blog reporting on a US pattern struck in lead, that was damaged by an NGC holder (with before and after images). While lead is softer than gold, silver, or bronze, ancient silver that has undergone some internal ‘crystalization’ (copper precipitation from the grain boundaries) can be more fragile.

NGC holder prongs damage 1 of 4 known Judd-13
https://www.reddit.com/r/coins/comments/8b0mfa/ngc_holder_prongs_damage_1_of_4_known_judd13/

[Dino]

I generally don't like slabs for ancient coins.  I have bought a few coins in slabs and have removed them.  I'm not sure it does anything to increase value or preserve the coin the way it may with modern coins.

[Kevin D]

I agree.

With US coins that are after a certain date, the holders should always be a perfect fit, as the coins of each issue are in essence all the same diameter and thickness, within the issue. NGC can make the perfect size insert for these coins and mass produce them. I don´t know how well they do with the earlier US coinage though, as there is some small but significant variation in the diameter and thickness of these, within a given issue.

Regarding ancients, providing the perfect fitting insert for every coin would most often entail a custom made insert for every coin, something that is apparently currently unworkable because of cost and time involved.

I called NGC and was told that they no longer issue photo-only certifications. All certifications now must be in the hard plastic holder.

[Kevin D]

Today, I removed a Bactrian tetradrachm from an NGC holder. This coin was in one of NGC’s ‘fat’ holders, the white insert being a three-piece sandwich-type assembly. The middle layer of the insert held the coin. Because the coin opening of the middle insert layer was so large (the coin has a diameter of 33mm), this middle layer was more flexible than it would be if the coin opening was smaller. So flexible that even though the fit was not perfect, the entire insert bowed 'outward' to such an extent that a dangerous amount of pressure was prevented from being exerted on the coin. The ‘fat’ hard plastic shell, and two outer layers of the insert, allowed for this bowing while keeping the coin from pressing against the hard plastic window. It seems to me that if NGC could find a way to holder all their ancients in this way, with a more flexible coin-holding middle insert layer that bows 'outward' to prevent dangerous pressure from being exerted on the coin, it would be a great improvement.

[Kevin D]

In the last couple of weeks I've removed 10 or so coins from NGC holders. The coins were silver and gold. One of the gold coins is quite thin and weighs 3.5 grams. Once removed, none of the coins showed any evidence of having been in a holder. I felt it was only fair to report this.

I prefer my ancient coins to be in flips, rather than slabs. I feel 'closer' to the coin this way and believe I can inspect the coin more thoroughly in a flip,  for authenticity and condition.

I wish NGC still offered their non-holder photo certificate service.

There is an interesting letter to the ANS Membership from Ute Wartenberg in the current issue of the ANS Magazine. Among other things, she notes that some auction firms are not guaranteeing authenticity of slabbed ancient coins. I read the Terms in a recent Heritage Auctions catalog and indeed they do not guarantee authenticity of slabbed coins. Their reason is that they cannot examine a slabbed coin well enough to authenticate it. So, both the certification company and the auction company do not guarantee authenticity of the slabbed ancient coins they certify and sell. I have been advised that Heritage Auctions owns a percentage of NGC. I wonder if this had anything to do with NGC deciding to discontinue their non-holder photo certification. After all, the auction company might have to guarantee authenticity of coins certified without being slabbed.

[stevex6]

Kevin D => congrats for releasing that sweet coin from its plastic tomb ... hopefully you'll like it even more now that you can spin it around in your hands and get a feel of how it felt in our ancient-friend's hands (maybe being used to buy an apple or a hooker, who knows, eh?)

Gawd, I love seeing ancient coins being broken-out of their claustrophobic shackles!! (great job, congrats)

 

Oh sorry => I didn't read ahead until just now ... wow, congrats on freeing a bunch more plastic-slaves!!

           

[Kevin D]

Steve P,
Thanks. I had some of those coins a long time. I always enjoyed them but also always felt that I was missing something.

Hey, If I send one of these coins to HA now for auction and I buy the coin back during the auction (paying the 'buy back' fee), does it mean HA will then guarantee the authenticity of the coin because it's not slabbed? Their Terms state that they don't guarantee authenticity only on slabbed coins because they can't examine them well enough for authentication.