Is this purchased Philip II coin actually Philip III?

[Michael V]

Hello everyone,

I recently purchased this Greek coin for £89 it was advertised as Philip II (of course I made no attempt to identify it before I bought it :p), but on further investigation I can not find any Philip II coin with Zeus and Herakles seated like this, and the portrait does not look like Philip II in comparison to others from his era.

So my question is, am I correct in saying this is indeed Philip III?

It is a nice coin and I probably would have bought it anyway, but then I am wondering was I over charged? If there is a need to contact the seller (Silbury Coins) I would like at least some sort of confirmation before I bring it up to them.

Thank you to anyone with any insight.


Michael

[Arados]

I have attached both of your images together.

[OldMoney]

It is a terrible photo, difficult to see any of the necessary finer detail.
However, from what may be seen, it appears as though there is some sign
of the surface being broken, ie: laminating, which may be an indication that
this is a plated, or fourree example.
If this is the case, was this fact disclosed to you before the time of purchase?
Also, the combination of thunderbolt in left field and this particular monogram
below the throne does not appear in Price, the primary reference catalogue
for these coins.
These symbols do appear individually, but at different mints, which may add to
the case that this may be a plated, non-official example.
Without (much) better images, it is difficult to be certain of anything.
It sounds like this is a matter worth discussing further with the dealer from
whom you purchased this piece. - And another reason to buy from places
like Forum!

- Walter

[Arados]

Try uploading again and remember to keep the pixel size to around 2600 ( 1900x700 ) per image, or there abouts.

[Michael V]

Photos:

[OldMoney]

Thanks for the better images, makes things a little easier.
You, and others, may now be able to see the 'holes' in the surface that indicate
toward this being a fourree piece. What does it weigh?
Others may be able to do better, but I am having trouble making anything out of
the name at all, either Philip or Alexander, due to the fragmentary letters.
In any case, definitely not Philip II as your seller appears to have claimed.

- Walter

[Michael V]

Thank you for taking the time to help me.

It weighs about 4 grams, I do not have anything that will weigh past 1 decimal place.

I have emailed the seller with my concerns but they are yet to respond.

Maybe it would be best to request a refund.

[Kevin D]

Michael,
here is a link to the CNG website and hundreds of this type of drachm that they have sold in the past many years. You will need to copy and paste this entire 'link' into your browser to get to the intended CNG webpage.

https://www.cngcoins.com/Search.aspx?PAGE_NUM=&PAGE=1&TABS_TYPE=1&CONTAINER_TYPE_ID=2&IS_ADVANCED=1&ITEM_DESC=Philip+II+Ar+Drachm&ITEM_IS_SOLD=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_1=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_3=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_2=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_4=1

Your coin has the types of Herakles on the obverse (later known by the Romans as Hercules), and Zeus enthroned on the reverse. These are the types of Alexander the Great, son of Philip II. In any event, I don't see your coin being a lifetime issue of Philip II. I can't read the inscription on your coin...if the name is Philip, then it would refer to Philip III. If it is Alexander, then this would refer to Alexander III (the Great), but could be struck after Alexander's death by any number of entities (this type of coin was struck for many, many years after the deaths of Philip III and Alexander the Great). By looking at the coins on the CNG website, you will see that the vast majority of them weigh around 4.2 to 4.3 grams, though some legitimate examples do weigh only 4 grams. The pits on your coin are cause for concern, as previously mentioned, as this is often a sign of a plated coin (maybe even an ancient counterfeit). However, your coin might also be authentic and just exhibiting pits, as some ancient coins do. Among the CNG examples linked to, you will find a very few lifetime examples of Philip II, so you can see what type of devices were used on his drachms. You will also see that the lifetime drachms of Philip II are usually struck on a different and lower weight standard (your coin would be a bit too heavy to be one of these). Celtic imitations are something I know next to nothing about, but perhaps this is a possibility as well.