Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. FORVM Has Evacuated for Hurricane Florence, Shipping Will be Delayed. Please do order now but understand we will not be able to ship until 17 September, perhaps later. Thanks for supporting FORVM! Welcome Guest. Please login or register. FORVM Has Evacuated for Hurricane Florence, Shipping Will be Delayed. Please do order now but understand we will not be able to ship until 17 September, perhaps later. Thanks for supporting FORVM!


FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Greek Coins (Moderators: Dino, Meepzorp)  |  Topic: Armenian Mt.Ararat Coin Vandalised/Scraped/Chiseled/Tooled 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Armenian Mt.Ararat Coin Vandalised/Scraped/Chiseled/Tooled  (Read 277 times)
OldMoney
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1118

My Site! oldmoney.com.au or via VCoins


WWW
« on: September 05, 2018, 05:26:50 am »

Vandalism!

About a year ago this coin was sold by a European dealer. It appears to have
been subsequently taken to the "Eastern Mediterranean" and vandalised.
There really is no better word for it.

Compare the relatively untouched, although worn, surfaces of the top, original
condition coin, to the now severely scratched, scraped, and tooled surfaces
(chiseled?) that have been newly applied to - or inflicted upon - the lower piece.

What is wrong with these people!

- Walter
Logged

Coins of Ephesus
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ephesuscoins/
Walter Holt's Old Money - Ancient Coins
http://www.vcoins.com/oldmoney
djmacdo
Tribunus Plebis 2017
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2782

I love this forum!


« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2018, 07:44:45 am »

Amen.  May the vandals have the same inflicted upon them.
Logged
Brennos
Consul
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 133


« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2018, 12:25:35 am »

I'm not sure that the coin has been tooled. I think that they could only have added that kind of yellowish sand (fake "desert patina" ?) to enhance the reliefs.  
It's often hard to compare photos (different light, angle etc...)
Logged
PtolemAE
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1694


PtolemyBronze.com


WWW
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2018, 05:22:24 pm »

I'm not sure that the coin has been tooled. I think that they could only have added that kind of yellowish sand (fake "desert patina" ?) to enhance the reliefs.  
It's often hard to compare photos (different light, angle etc...)

Looks possible - just something to fill in certain bits and make some apparent shadowy contrast.  If it's the typical filler material which resembles modeling clay it will easily rinse off with a wet q-tip.  It does seem to be filling in around edges that seem visible on the first set of pictures but perhaps some areas now filled in were made 'deeper' or 'sharper' (edges) by mechanical means. 

PtolemAE
Logged

djmacdo
Tribunus Plebis 2017
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2782

I love this forum!


« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2018, 06:17:07 am »

Model makers' flat hobby paint, available in a variety of sand and dirt colors, is also often used by fakers and it is not easily removed.

I think there has been some tooling around the base of the mountain and around the bust of the farther figure on the obverse.  Certainly the coin is now less honest than it was.
Logged
OldMoney
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1118

My Site! oldmoney.com.au or via VCoins


WWW
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2018, 11:30:29 am »

I'm not sure that the coin has been tooled.

It is disappointing that you cannot see what should be patently obvious. May I
make the sincere suggestion that you take some extra time to educate yourself
further, and become even more familiarised with the subject matter that at
present. Allow me to elucidate further.

I showed the original image for comparison, and the surfaces on that image are
clearly a little rough, and the devices quite worn overall. Now compare that with
the gouged and chiseled areas on the adjacent image.

The mere addition of some yellow paint (or whatever it may be) does highlight or
enhance the outlines of the images, but it was previously severely damaged by
scraping around the edges and around the outlines of those images. There are
'striations' across the surfaces, and gouges into and around the main depictions,
on both sides.

I find it difficult to understand how something so obvious cannot be immediately
seen and recognised instantly by anyone and everyone. The fact that this is not
so, both scares me that collectors are not doing more to learn about such things
for themselves in order to prevent being deceived or 'ripped-off', and it allows
me to offer what I can here in order to change that (by showing such examples).

In the below images, you will see that I have place a number of arrows where
there are obvious signs of gouging and tooling. The problem I had was that there
was not enough space for all of the arrows I wanted to use, and so you may have
to fill in some of the gaps yourselves.

Anyone who still cannot see that which is patently obvious in these images, needs
to visit their local coin club, their friendly ancients dealer, attend a few coin shows,
and do more to learn as much as possible about these matters.

This is not one of the more (in)famous 19th century (etc.) professional works, this
is quite amateurish, poorly conceived and horribly executed. It is offensive to the
numismatist, the historian, and the artist in all of us. It is simply vandalism.

Please have another, very close look at the surfaces on both coins, and compare
again the original, with the latter. Details have not only been enhanced, but added
where there was little or nothing there before. Look at ALL of the coin. Good luck!

- Walter
Logged

Coins of Ephesus
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ephesuscoins/
Walter Holt's Old Money - Ancient Coins
http://www.vcoins.com/oldmoney
glebe
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1040


WWW
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2018, 07:09:52 pm »

I'm confused - which one is supposed to be the original coin?

Ross G.
Logged

glebe
Procurator Caesaris
Caesar
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1040


WWW
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2018, 07:48:37 pm »

Evidently the yellow coin is the later version.
And yes, when you blow the images up the tooling by punches is obvious - particularly to enhance the dotted border on the left of the reverse, and along the outlines of the mountains.

Ross G.
Logged

Brennos
Consul
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 133


« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2018, 12:06:21 am »

Ok , but it remains a very light tooling...

What i call an horror and an outrageous tooling, smoothing and repatinating is that :
 
Logged
djmacdo
Tribunus Plebis 2017
Procurator Monetae
Caesar
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2782

I love this forum!


« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2018, 06:19:49 am »

It was a nice coin originally--and now, faked!  Terrible.
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Greek Coins (Moderators: Dino, Meepzorp)  |  Topic: Armenian Mt.Ararat Coin Vandalised/Scraped/Chiseled/Tooled « previous next »
Jump to:  

Recent Price Reductions in Forum's Shop


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.867 seconds with 40 queries.