Diocletian Coin

[arash p]

Hi Guys

I recently got a Diocletian coin from a fellow collector in Europe . Although I did researched and seems most likely authentic but like to double check with experts more familiar with this types. Also I have heard sometimes the coin is real but silvering was applied modern. So also I appreciate if you let me know silvering is original or modern. It looks like a lot of silvering preserved which is a bit unusual to me after 1700 years of age !

[Heliodromus]

The coin looks genuine, with original silvering. Nice specimen.

There are a lot of coins with fake patina (having been stripped and repatinated - or a few outright fakes), but I can't recall seeing any that I would suspect of having modern silvering. You do see a few low grade coins that have been heat treated to bring the silver content to the surface, but they have the obviously bogus combination of wear yet silver surface, and lack the small "flecky" breaks in the silvering (as seen on yous) that is otherwise typical.

[arash p]

Thanks so much Congius, It was very detailed response and very informational.  I was actually worried about seeing those "flecky" areas on the silver and did not know that is actually a good sign to be there. Also the coin has a lot of luster on silver which is good too I guess since indicates its been hammered and not cast.

Best Regards
Arash

[Joe Sermarini]

I often say it is impossible to authenticate coins from photos. Sometimes it actually is possible. This coin is certainly is genuine. 

Arash p on this board we do not authenticate coins we discuss suspected fakes. You are abusing the board. It is time for you to stop asking about coins you are considering purchasing or have already purchased.  It is time for you to stop using this resource as a tool for shopping from sellers you do not know. If you know the seller there is no reason to ask here.

Know the seller or know the coin.

[arash p]

Thanks guys for help. I just found a very close match of this coin for sale on Ebay. Does this prove it as fake? I heard from some collectors that when you see an identical coin being offered somewhere else means it likely cast from by same forger.  Even both have same high level of silvering ( I also talked to a collector he said it is very odd to see this level of silvering on an ancient coin. he mentioned most of them have 20-50% silvering left)

[traveler]

Arash,

I think you are referring to transfer die fakes.

The second coin you posted does not share the same dies as the first coin. So it cannot be a transfer die fake. This is on top of the deposits which they don't share.

There are coins which are doubtful but this is not one of them. Yet you still worry about it.

It seems that you worry constantly about whether your coins are fake. As others have said many times, perhaps you should just buy from well established dealers with a lifetime guarantee. Why get a coin and then second guess it all the time?

[Joe Sermarini]

Arash, above I said, "this coin is certainly genuine."  Did you read my post?

The second coin is not a very close match for the purposes of authentication. You should stay away from eBay.

[arash p]

Thanks Joe and Traveler both of you. yes I am always worried of coins I get to be fake. But this one I got from a reputable dealer and does come with lifetime guarantee my only issue was seeing a close match die (which I know you say it is not) on ebay and made me very worried. So just for me to learn what do we define as die match when it comes to fakes? I know sometimes when people post coins of fakes, experts refer to some published die matches of those coin that proves it is fake. To my eyes the one on ebay matches every details but again I might be missing something and would love to get trained to distinguish the differences.

Best Regards
Arash

[traveler]

Arash,

Perhaps you should read Joe's post again. Especially the last two paragraphs.

I often say it is impossible to authenticate coins from photos. Sometimes it actually is possible. This coin is certainly is genuine. 

Arash p on this board we do not authenticate coins we discuss suspected fakes. You are abusing the board. It is time for you to stop asking about coins you are considering purchasing or have already purchased.  It is time for you to stop using this resource as a tool for shopping from sellers you do not know. If you know the seller there is no reason to ask here.

Know the seller or know the coin.

[PeterD]

Arash,

Upwards of 10,000 coins could be minted in ancient times from one set of dies. Therefore die-matches are to be expected. However, if two coins are identical in every way - die-match, apparent wear, damage and centering - then modern casting would be suspected.

Does this answer your question?

[arash p]

Hi Peter

Thanks for detail answer. Yes it answered my question my only issue is to my eye they look a die match.  maybe my eyes not that detailed to capture subtle differences that an expert can see and that is why I need some help from experts here who can see what is die-match and what is not.

Best Wishes
Arash

[PeterD]

The easiest way to check for a die match is to choose a prominent feature and note the position with respect to another prominent feature, such as lettering. With these two coins, the obverses look to be a match. But on the reverses, look at the wreath held by the standing figure. On one coin it is next to the letter 'O' and on the other next to the letter 'I'. So the coins area a match on one side only. This is perfectly normal.

[stevex6]

[arash p]

Thanks so much Peter for this clarification now I can see how to detect a die match