Old coin-ticket help

[Optimo Principi]

Hi all,
A recent Trajan denarius arrived with a nice, old, discoloured coin ticket (I love it when that happens!) and as is often the case, I think with a little help, there may be a nice provenance to be discovered.

After much deciphering, a note on one side of the ticket seems to say "10/66 Barz." with the other saying "10/66 Barzan". The possibility this could mean October 1966 certainly got my attention.

I decided on the word "Barzan" as after searching for many similar words, that one got a few hits; some coins on AC Search say "acquired by Barzan in 1964".

If people agree with my logic my question is who is Barzan? An auction house? An individual collector? Does anyone have any idea about a possible October 1966 auction that could be worth checking?

[okidoki]

excellent with great toning

[Joe Sermarini]

Perhaps we should have an ID help for anonymous old tags thread.  I see quite a few that I wish I could ID.
 

[mauseus]

Hi,

Or a reference gallery of known dealer/collector tags and tickets. The other thing I have passively collected are numismatists signatures and hand writing too.

Regards,

Mauseus

[FlaviusDomitianus]

The ticket is obiously Italian.

I've made a bit of a research and I found out that Rino Barzan was a numismatic dealer in Turin back in the 20th century.

He specialized on Italian coinage and his last publication appears to be dated 1970.

Many citations of him (also referring to sold coins) can be found in the Italian Forum "lamoneta".

Kind regards

Alberto

[Optimo Principi]

Thank you, I will look for more information on Mr Rino Barzan.

Hard to know if he acquired or sold the coin in 1966 but the date seems to match what you say.

[curtislclay]

An excellent coin, with a scarce draped and cuirassed bust type: Woytek 524f, citing only six specimens.

Your coin is fine enough to have merited illustrating in an auction catalogue or dealer's list, but apparently this specimen is not in the photofile at the Numismatic Institute of the Univ. of Vienna, which was compiled starting c. 1960, since Woytek names his six specimens, and none of them is yours: BM, Cambridge, ANS, private coll. (3.34g), and 2 in Berk sales 91/336 and 145/313. I didn't know who Barzan was, but now Alberto has informed us.

Two minor mistakes in the previous owner's writeup of your coin: COS VI is rendered COS III, and the correct Cohen number is 273 not 272.

[FlaviusDomitianus]

Thank you, I will look for more information on Mr Rino Barzan.

Hard to know if he acquired or sold the coin in 1966 but the date seems to match what you say.

I believe that he was the seller and that the collector noted his name and the date of purchase on the ticket he got with the coin.

Alberto

[Optimo Principi]

Curtis, excellent information as always; I am drawn to the lesser-seen cuirassed bust types but I am surprised this variant is so scarce. Great to know.

Alberto, yes that makes sense. Who knows when Barzan acquired the coin and who purchased it in 66 - lots of detective work on this one.

[Joe Sermarini]

Hi,

Or a reference gallery of known dealer/collector tags and tickets. The other thing I have passively collected are numismatists signatures and hand writing too.

Regards,

Mauseus

Yes, my intent was to create that after we had a few in a thread to start.

[FlaviusDomitianus]

Curtis, excellent information as always; I am drawn to the lesser-seen cuirassed bust types but I am surprised this variant is so scarce. Great to know.

Alberto, yes that makes sense. Who knows when Barzan acquired the coin and who purchased it in 66 - lots of detective work on this one.

The identity of the 1966 collector could be known by your seller, perhaps.

A Carlo Barzan, maybe related to Rino (I'm not positive on that) is an employee of the auction house Bolaffi, located in Turin too.

[Meepzorp]

The ticket is obiously Italian.

Kind regards

Alberto

Hi folks,

I agree.

I've seen numerous old Italian tags, and this one certainly looks like one.

Meepzorp

[Meepzorp]

Hi Joe, Mauseus, and folks,

I think that would be a great idea to have an ID section and/or reference gallery for old tags.

As some Forum members know, I keep my old tags. And many of my coins were purchased form overseas dealers, increasing the chances that the coin would include an old tag from an overseas dealer (from a previous auction in the past).

When I posted photos of my coins in my website, whenever possible, I included photos of the old tags that came with the coin when I received it. In fact, that was one of the reasons why I decided to create my own website instead of using the Forum gallery. Along with photos of my coins, I wanted to include photos of my hand-written tags, current dealer tags, any old dealer tags, drawings of monograms and symbols, drawings of countermarks, etc.

Anyone is welcome to look through my website to potentially find a match to these old tags or any other old tags.

Unfortunately, too many dealers don't routinely include the old tags or even information about the coin's past sale history.

Meepzorp

[Andrew McCabe]

The ticket is obiously Italian.

I've made a bit of a research and I found out that Rino Barzan was a numismatic dealer in Turin back in the 20th century.

He specialized on Italian coinage and his last publication appears to be dated 1970.

Many citations of him (also referring to sold coins) can be found in the Italian Forum "lamoneta".

Kind regards

Alberto

This is useful to know. I think I have a similar ticket. I don't know if it's Barzan ticket however, seems more likely the collector who bought from him. Other tix in same style might help. There's a high probability that Carlo Barzan (Bolafi) is related to this Rino Barzan. It's how things go.