Stater Crete Phaistos

[VCollector]

diameter 25 - 29 mm

weight 8,92 gr


Please let me know your opinion. I saw few Phaistos staters using acsearch.info but not find the same type.  https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?similar=435774 Talos has not same hairstyle. Possible replicas.

[Molinari]

Looks cast, but maybe that is just the photo.

[Enodia]

you cannot get a decent photo through the plastic!

~ Peter

[n.igma]

The fabric of this coin with what appears to be a two sided incuse form rings bells. I doubt it is authentic. As best I can tell from the poor image of an enshrouded coin it is a poorly manipulated cast.

[Meepzorp]

Hi folks,

As n pointed out, the fact that it is incused (concave) on both sides is a huge red flag.

Meepzorp

[Dino]

First, I don't think there's anyway to tell from the photo.  Better photos and photos of edge might help.

Second, I'm not sure I agree with the "concave" or "incuse" observations for this particular coin.  Two slightly convex dies would create that particular look.

See below for two examples of this type of stater that are concave on both sides.

[VCollector]

Updated. Please see. I think replicas.

[n.igma]

Suspicions confirmed! From the new updated images it’s clearly not an authentic ancient coin. The coin fabric is not produced from a striking process. A cast origin is without doubt - hence the ragged double incuse which is never found on authentic ancients. Note- I am not talking of a concave fabric but a double incuse fabric. They are totally different things. There are also many other diagnostics of fakery aside from the fabric eg the false style, the incomplete design extending off what would have been the dies based on the incuse edges, casting defects etc.

[djmacdo]

A terrible fake--obviously cast and with an edge like no real Greek coin.

[Dino]

Updated. Please see. I think replicas.

I agree based on the updated photos.

[Dino]

As noted above, based on the new photos, I agree the above coin is not authentic.  In fact, I found a site that sells these things.  Screen shot below (first photo).  The site says that the coin is not solid precious metal, but is silver plated.  It also says the coins are made for "educational purposes."

I have some minor quibbles with terminology in the discussion just as a point of interest.  

Note- I am not talking of a concave fabric but a double incuse fabric. They are totally different things.

Agree that an incuse design element and concavity can be two completely different things.  Not sure you can call the entire side of a coin incuse.  Webster's dictionary defines "incuse" as "Cut or stamped in, or hollowed out by engraving."  Coins have incuse design elements.  For example, hemidrachms of Rhodes have a rose within an incuse square.  I wouldn't call the entire fabric incuse, just the square.

In addition, there are some coins that have incuse elements on both sides.  Not sure what is meant by "incuse fabric."

For example, Italy. Bruttium, Kaulonia. AR incuse Stater, circa 525-500 BC  (second photo below).

That coin has an incuse circle on the obverse with a figure within.  It has an incuse figure on the reverse. Double incuse fabric?  Not sure what that means, but certainly a coin with incuse elements on both sides.

As to concave/incuse, there's a coin of Sicily with a crab in a concave incuse circle. (Third photo below).

I'm not really even sure that the coin at the beginning of this thread is really intended to depict an incuse element. I think it's just some guys stamping pictures from ancient coins into metal to sell as souvenirs.  (You can get one for about 16 bucks...).

[VCollector]

Could you say me which the website's name? Thank You Very Much!