Questionable EID MAR Brutus Coin

[Joshua]

Saw this Brutus coin go for $200. Would it be a fake that it went for such a low price, seeing as so many other ones have gone for thousands?

[David Atherton]

Do you really have to ask? 

[labienus]

David, didn't you recognize that this was a Brutus lost in translation ? Something wrong on board the Enterprise when Brutus asked Cassius "beam me up, Cassy" ?

[David Atherton]

David, didn't you recognize that this was a Brutus lost in translation ? Something wrong on board the Enterprise when Brutus asked Cassius "beam me up, Cassy" ?

That explanation is worth more than the coin!

[JBF]

Wha!?

[Joe Sermarini]

Joshua did not get the joke. He has requested account deletion.

[Joe Sermarini]

Fake coin report please.

[JamesC11]

The response to a reasonable question by a relatively new member of the board, while comprehensible to most of us, was overly dismissive.  Apologies to Joshua, with a request that he not give up his membership.  Jim, Perpetual Non-Poster

[cmcdon0923]

[soapbox]

Unfortunately, I see this happening more and more often.

When you see someone with one or two posts in their history asking a question, a bit of dignity with your reply will go a long way in not turning the poster off towards our hobby because they think it's filled with pompous "better than thous" who have no time or patience for a new collector.

Humor, sarcasm, etc., etc.....do not always come through in an email.

A one word reply of "fake" does nothing to educate the poster.  Let them know what leads you to believe it's a fake.  If they knew for sure, they wouldn't be asking here.

We were ALL in his shoes at one time in our journey.

[/soapbox]

[glebe]

This coin seems to be related to the example below which is noted as a modern copy (along with several other similar coins) in the Fake Coin Reports on this Forum.

Search for Brutus Eid Mar here:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/

Ross G.

[dougsmit]

Yes. Forvm does have a reputation as a less than friendly place with many rules and little compassion.  It also has the reputation as the place where more serious people might see a question and give an answer worth hearing.  It would probably be hard to change one without the other.  It is also why so many of us participate here and also in another less professional place where beginners are treated with more deference.

In the case of this coin:  It is not the worst fake out there.  Certainly it is a fake but there are so many we see more often.  I would like to know what there is to know about who made it, when, how (dies, cast, tooled) etc,  The question was fair but obvious.  If you see something worth thousands selling for little, should we be suspicious?  There is a lesson here that goes far beyond coins.  Should we handle the obvious better? There is a lesson here, too.

[TenthGen]

Hopefully Joshua will come back and reread the thread and see a productive discussion occurring. As Glebe pointed out, this coin is a double-die match to these two:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-10185
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-11413

That said, the coin in question in the original topic seems to have a different appearance compared to the two linked above, which makes me think it might have been made differently.

Any chance this coin was made using an authentic denarius as a flan? Something like an extremely worn Antony Legionary? This is speculation on my end, but something about the characteristics of the flan just remind me of Antony's legionary denarii. I may be reading too much into it.  

[glebe]

Hopefully Joshua will come back and reread the thread and see a productive discussion occurring. As Glebe pointed out, this coin is a double-die match to these two:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-10185
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-11413

That said, the coin in question in the original topic seems to have a different appearance compared to the two linked above, which makes me think it might have been made differently.

I thought that too, and I have to say I don't understand the scenario involved here.

Perhaps some of the experts can help us here.

Ross G.

[JBF]

I think it should be noted that sometimes an authentic Brutus might go for $200, now I know that I will never stumble onto such a situation, but it can and does happen.  In Denver, a first edition Milton was discovered at a garage sale.  I believe it eventually went for $60,000.  One has to beat a lot of bushes, and know what one is doing and have a little luck.  But it can happen, we are all hoping that we might stumble onto something like that, and Joshua, even though he didn't find it, wanted to know if that is what happened when Brutus went for $200.  Of course, it is improbable, but with as many events as occur in a moment, some improbable ones are due to slip through.  One way it happens is that an expert dies, and the widow or the kids don't know anything about what they got.  A friend found a (piece of) medieval manuscript at a garage sale for a dollar, I am sure the family just thought it was junk (it was not anything super-special, just special to him).  Some people will find something like Brutus, and let it slip through because of how improbable it is.  On the opposite side of the spectrum are those who will throw probability out the window, and also discretion when they see something "too good to be true."  In-between is the person that has knowledge, sees the item, and weighs in their mind, understanding that while improbable, all the individual elements of the item are right, and it has to be true.

There was a movie made about a woman and her painting, called "Who the #%^& is Jackson Pollack?"   Most everything she has ever found at thrift stores is junk, but she did find a Jackson Pollack painting.  Art Experts have dismissed it based on their opinions, but a forensic artist found a fingerprint of Jackson Pollack in the paint.  It can happen and it does happen, but not necessarily for you or me.

btw, I don't get the pseudo-star trek references.  I think that whoever made those dismisses the improbable, mistakenly thinking it was impossible, Joshua did not seem to have this problem.

[Nikola N]

Hi
U have Brutus denarius
Is it real or fake?

[Din X]

@Nikola N

Your coin is a fake of a fake, the original was a Lipanoff forgery from hand cut dies and from one of these fakes was later used by someone to produced transfer dies, I have seen this fake for sale some time a go at ebay (I thin it costed something between 30-40Euro and was offered as fake)  and I did not bid because it was not an original fake

Here a die matching fake (top picture)

"Die-engraver "Slavey Studio - Haskovo I"
Published: Sofia 2003, no.118
I. Prokopov"

This is 100% wrong, the dies are form Lipanoff I have the plastic rubbers which can be made electric conductive with graphite and then you can produce with them by using electroplating matrixes, some of these still had traces of graphit etc.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-4907

This fake is published in bulletin, too (second picture)

Published in the IAPN BOC Vol 18, No. 1 in 1993 - example 6A
Image used with permission of IAPN

   
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-8130