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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: Standing Caliph type - Need assistance with full ID #1 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Standing Caliph type - Need assistance with full ID #1  (Read 603 times)
OldMoney
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« on: February 10, 2018, 11:18:20 pm »

I picked up a couple of nice 'Islamic' coins, successfully identifying many of them,
but there are a couple of them that I have found difficult to work out beyond the
basic types, and comparisons with a few broadly similar examples.

This is a Standing Caliph type and from what I can gather, it has a superficial
resemblance to this one: Umayyad Caliphate. 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan (AH 65-86/
AD 685-705). Æ Fals, Halab (Aleppo) mint. (listed as Album 3529)

Is this correct? What about the mint? Reference(s)?

Thanks in advance,

Walter
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2018, 01:08:54 am »

I am not able to read the mint city but my best bet is Emessa (Hums حمص).
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2018, 09:07:29 am »

Thanks Canaan,
The item I forgot to link to is this one:
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3505216

It compares in a lot of ways, and is one of the closest of all the ones
I have found in various searches.

Which part of the coin tells us it is Homs/Halab? To right of Caliph?
I will keep looking for comparative material.

Walter
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2018, 09:32:28 am »

No, the name of the mint city is on the right of the transformed cross, i found difficulty in reading the name but for my eyes and compared with other examples on acsearch and my coin from Hums i think it is from Hums!!!
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2018, 03:02:56 pm »

Dear Walter ,
If there is a mint city on your coin
Your coin secret is here inside the line.
The way I read the first letter is M م
(at least to me looks like M)
I am not Islamic coin collector, but I can read, and to tell you the truth that is the first time, I meet this reverse, since this morning I trying to read around the reverse, I can not figure a word other than god الله  and another word after   لا no or no one  or is it   الا  means but ,  written from left to right. (in Arabic , writing is from right to left )
Considering your coin authentic and has a mint on it , it should be there in that line , let us hope that the word on top looks like من or مر ( I enter those two word just for their form )  , let us hope that it is not part of the mint name .
I hope I did not get confused more than you are.

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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 06:56:45 am »

Thanks for the great information Sam.
I have been looking at a few other examples, from various mints, and the only
other ones that I have found with the mint name to the right and nothing to the
left field were from Damascus.
I do not have sufficient understanding of the script, but wondered whether you
may have thought that mint to be a possible alternative?
See image below for comparison: www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=386401
References supplied were: SICA 711; Album 112 (dealer's image).

Walter
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2018, 07:29:18 am »

Hi Walter,
See those two examples (I only mention them to shown how the mint city of Damascus can be written on Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan, at least what I have seen so far)
First :
Bi Dimashq, means “in Damascus “   بدمشق
Imagine the word بدمشق  with no dots. 

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1053168
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Sam Mansourati
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2018, 07:44:05 am »


Second: only the city name
Dimashq                 دمشق
Imagine the word دمشق      with no dots. 

Now if the mint wrote   مشق   for دمشق (I mean with no D in the beginning, as abbreviation, that is something possible.

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1059099
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2018, 08:18:09 am »

Now for you to have a “Panorama” look (which I did not mention on purpose from the beginning not to confuse you.
There are some mint starts with M, like Manbij           (      منبج       imagine the word with no dots)

As example just to see how written on coin  :

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=507688

So now you see how confusing it is , when coin is not clear.
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 03:57:14 am »

Thank you for all your help Sam.

I can see that there must be some level of confusion given that the mint name
is either not fully present, or perhaps a little blundered.

In some ways, if we can eliminate certain possibilities, then the remaining pool
of what is possible will be smaller, and any search can be concentrated there.

As I said above, I only put forward the Damascus possibility as it was the only
one I could find that had nothing in the left field, whereas all others appear to
have something there, whether it is more script or perhaps a star, etc.

I have compared the coin to as many as I could find, so far, and have found no
direct match, and only a couple that come close. I am not sure what you mean
by a "Panorama" look. Manbij appears to be a possibility, but is there enough
remaining to be any more certain of a mint attribution to that city?

Thank you again for your kind lessons.

Walter
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 07:42:48 pm »

By Panorama , a look from the top Smiley  , I meant our space of possibilities for a mint name starts with an M, or even others close to the form .
As you may know , known Fals mint are more than 21 , and maybe more not discovered yet.
Remember, our theory was based on if there a mint name and it is there in that black line  or part of that mint name.

I wish I can give you a clear answer
It is in my mind , I will keep  searching.
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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: Standing Caliph type - Need assistance with full ID #1 « previous next »
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