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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: SELJUQ OF RUM: Sulayman II More Info? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: SELJUQ OF RUM: Sulayman II More Info?  (Read 877 times)
Jschulze
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« on: January 06, 2018, 09:15:23 pm »

Hi all,
I have this coin of Sulayman II or Suleiman II depending on the spelling of the source...

I think the seller's identification is correct. However, I was hoping to get a bit of an explanation of the where the date is, how to read it and what exactly the script says on the reverse.

As with many descriptions accompanying coins... I can find the attributions and basic details but no exact reading of the reverse script.

Also is there a good web resource for coins of this type? A specialist's site maybe... something beyond acsearch and other auction listings.

Thank you!

SELJUQ OF RUM: Sulayman II, 1196-1204, AE fals AH595,
A-1205.2, horseman right, with royal title al-sultan,

30 mm, 8.17 grams

PS: Although the green looks like it could be trending bronze disease... it seems to be just stable mineral encrustations. Not powdery or flaky. The green is solid... could be old disease that has stabilized I suppose.
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Jschulze
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2018, 12:06:14 am »

Bump! Thanks for any information you may provide!

RE: Where is the date and what is it? What exactly does the script read on the reverse?

Thank you!
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Pekka K
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2018, 02:20:22 am »


Here are some similar coins you can compare:

https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=78895
https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=45380

The date is spelled out in arabic.

Pekka K
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Sam
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 05:42:43 pm »

You see inside the line is the words   ( and Five Hundred  ) و  خمسمئة

It is the seen and the last part of    ( Five and Ninety and Five Hundred)   خمسة و تسعين و  خمسمئة
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Sam Mansourati
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2018, 05:46:53 pm »

I hope the line is clear , here is a good example : where the date is written

ضرب في  سنة  خمسة و تسعين و  خمسمئة

Exact translation    :     Struck in year Five and Ninety and Five Hundred

This photo is taken from here :
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3099801

In general  , always go with Zeno on more information for this or other coins , the gentleman who helps there is my friend Bakkar ( one of the best in this field )
He is - Bakkar - member in here too.

Good day.
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Sam Mansourati
Jschulze
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 10:02:23 pm »

Thank you Sam and Pekka, I'm just getting back to this one. I have not had time to review all of the links and information yet and may follow-up with more questions.

This coin is very cool and may lead me to collect more coins from this era.

Sam thank you for the great explanation and links! I see now that the date is written around the edge. I assume that the central script is the name the ruler's name? If I could ask, how does that center script read? In one of the links, it mentions "El sultan el kahir." Is that the translation of the script?

Thank you again for your assistance!

Josh

PS: Zeno looks to be a great reference that I was unaware of, thanks for pointing me there!
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Sam
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2018, 08:25:32 am »

Hello there ,

As you asked : what exactly the script says on the reverse :

السلطان القاهر سليمان شاه بن قلج ارسلان

Assultan  Al Kaher Sul'yman Shah Bin KKaljj Arssulan

Assultan  ( King ) Al Kaher (The unbeatable , always wins  ) Sul'yman ( known name from the Bible son of king David , Solomon in Arabic way ) Shah ( Persian word written in Arabic here means king) Bin ( Son  )   KKaljj ( name ) Arssulan ( name )


Pleasure to know you .

Sam
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Sam Mansourati
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« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2018, 08:55:54 am »

Your thread here is a good place to explain something important to collectors who are non-Arabic speakers.

AL (Arabic) means the (in English), now you notice I said    Assultan (which is the correct one) not Al Sultan    السلطان
Why?
In Arabic there are two groups of letters:
The moony (adjective from the word moon) letters and the sunny (adjective from the word sun) letters.
So moony letters and sunny letters.
If the letter following the   AL (the) is a sunny letter, the L will not be pronounced, and that letter will be pronounced heavy double.
S is a sunny letter, so we do not say AL Sultan, we say Ass’ultan.

If the letter following the   AL (the) is a moony letter, the L will  be pronounced.
M is a moony letter,  the L will be pronounced , example :  AL Malik (the king) which also comes a lot on Islamic coins.  الملك  Al Malik.
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Sam Mansourati
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2018, 11:28:14 am »

Extraordinary.
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Jschulze
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2018, 09:48:27 pm »

Thank you so much Sam! Coin time has been extremely limited for me lately so I hope you'll forgive me for taking so long to reply. I have a one year old that does not keep himself out of trouble long enough that I can enjoy my "coining" time as much as I'd like! Your language skills and understanding of coins with Arabic script is truly a valuable resource to this board.

With your great additional information, I have a lot more to research and learn about this coin. Thank you!

Josh
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Sam
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2018, 11:02:48 am »

Thank you so much ,  Mrs Henriette Alawi-Hajjar, pleasure to hear from you.
I am glad you are a member now .

You are very welcome Josh , and may God bless the child  Thumbs Up
Children  are blessed pleasure enjoy them as much as you can  Smiley
The child will be your man one day , and your lovely cane.
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Sam Mansourati
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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: SELJUQ OF RUM: Sulayman II More Info? « previous next »
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