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Author Topic: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation  (Read 2690 times)

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Offline FEDERICO D

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The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« on: December 12, 2017, 12:52:28 pm »

Offline FEDERICO D

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Re: The coins of Nero and the book of revelation
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 12:54:44 pm »

Offline snapapuss

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2017, 02:47:22 pm »
Is plugging your own book allowed?
steve

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2017, 02:56:39 pm »
Yes, it is.
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Offline FEDERICO D

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2017, 03:01:19 pm »
Unfortunately it is not translated in full in English (just a summary and the central chapter which is the 5 of which I have already posted the link).  But now I put on Academia.Edu also the chapter 4 dedicated to the different interpretations, prior to mine, of the number 666

Offline FEDERICO D

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2017, 03:11:10 pm »
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name" (Rev 13, 16-17).

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2017, 07:28:07 pm »
Except that our discussions here are about numismatics, not religion. 
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Offline FEDERICO D

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 04:11:07 am »
I know and I apologize. I allowed myself to start this discussion because for the first time Numismatics makes a fundamental contribution to the understanding of a sacred text as complex as the Book of Revelation. For the first time, therefore, the Numismatics has a primary importance on a par with other disciplines usually considered more important as History, Archeology, etc. The essence of my thesis, in fact, is that the mark of the Beast is the imprint of a coin of Nero and this thesis has been considered plausible by various international interpreters of the Holy Scriptures. If this discussion contrasts with the rules of the forum you can eliminate it without problems and I thank you for the hospitality you have reserved to me.

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2017, 05:19:10 pm »
The link doesn't seem to lead to your article. While I'm happy to accept that that the Beast is probably a reference to Nero, it's harder to see why the mark would be a coin. Perhaps you could outline your argument here?
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Offline FEDERICO D

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2017, 06:36:42 pm »
 In order to solve the enigma of number 666 it is necessary to completely understand the entire sense of the whole Chapter 13 of the Book of Revelation. 
For me relevant meanings of narration are related to the two Beasts appeared in that Chapter: the Beast that raises up from the sea represents the Roman Empire while the Beast raising up from the earth is the image of the Emperor exerting all his powers at the moment in which John is working on the Book of Revelation
The only useful help that John provides in order to solve the enigma is the information that  666 number is a  “number of a man”(Rev 13:18). In light of the same theme some authors  let us note that according to the expression “metron anthrōpou” (“human scale” Rev 21:17) related to the height of one hundred and fourty four arms of eschatological Jerusalem walls, John states “anthrōpou ho estin anghelou” that literally sounds as “of man means of angel”. It is argued that this passage of the book would  demonstrate that the Apocalypse of John is fully inserted into the apocalyptic literary genre in which some animal species often represent certain categories of men, or people, monsters  and imaginary animals symbolize demons while the “men” are instead the angels. Rev 21:17, then, is called upon to deny that the term “number of a man” reported in 666 is to mean a human character and to support, however, regards to an angelic entity or even an angel shaped one that is to say satanic.
To counter these observations what should be noted is that throughout the Book of Revelation, the term “men” in the plural form always indicates unequivocally human beings. In the other two places where “man” occurs in the singular form it indicates definitely a human person: in Rev 1:13 in the midst of seven candlesticks, the person “like unto a Son of man” is indeed a divine creature but manifesting himself through human appearance, while in Rev 9:5 to the plague of locusts on the fifth trumpet is given such a power to obtain an agony as “of a scorpion when it stings a man”: the reference is then aimed to a person made of flesh and blood who has feelings of pain, not certainly to an angel. This leads to the conclusion that in Rev 21:17 the expression “metron anthrōpou ho estin anghelou” can be translated less literally “according to the measure currently in use among men adopted by the angel”: the angel employs a units of measure in use among men in order to be understood from these. Thus, the argument inferred from Rev 21:17 is refuted to support the view that the “number of a man” mentioned in Rev 13:18 is to be referred to an angelic entity.
The research is then reported among men. In addition to the elements analyzed in the previous Chapter, that lead us to believe that the Roman Empire is hidden behind the Beast rising from the sea while the Emperor behind the one rising from the earth, we must now examine other details, always from Chapter 13 of Revelation, which not only allow us to be confident that the second Beast alludes to the imperator, but let even know the precise identity.
A first indication of what stated above can be taken from the fact that the Beast rising from the earth “doeth great signs, that he should even make fire to come down out of heaven upon the earth in the sight of men” (Rev 13:13). Well, as to miss in this inside a significant reference to the Great Fire of Rome hanged by Nero in the year 64? As well as the Beast rising from the sea with his head beaten to death and then healed emulates the miracle of the resurrection of Christ, so the Beast rising from the earth emulates another miracle, that of Elijah that had brought fire down from heaven to burn the animal offered in sacrifice (1Kings 18, 20-40). But once again there is no step forward to the pathetic parody of the original miracle: as a matter of fact the Beast rising from the earth is, indeed, a result even more misguided and disastrous being symptomatic of the fallacy of his teachings and the wickedness of his heart. Nero, in fact, falsely blamed the Christians for the Fire of Rome, writing the page of the first large-scale Christian persecution, among the victims Peter and Paul can be also named.
The parody of the miracle of the fire of Elijah referred to a specific episode in Nero’s, can be juxtaposed to the imitation of the miracle of the resurrection of Christ put in place by the Roman Empire as a whole force,  able to resume the designation of Claudius as Emperor after the heeling caused by the killing of Caligula: the parallelism made by John between the two historic situations and the wonders, respectively Elijah’s and Jesus’s, is undeniable and its understanding allows us to seize irony attached to the rough imitation of the original miracle.
The conclusion we reach to, on the other hand, is perfectly compatible with the hazardous situation that,  as all commentators argue, John perceives as imminent for Christians and that suggests a persecution: here is the clue that it has nothing to do with the persecution of Domitian, as held by most scholars, but of Nero’s. The matricide Emperor, therefore, seems to be the one who “put to death all who refused to worship the statue of the beast” (Rev 13:15).
   But, in addition to provide an indication that we have just said, John is responsible for making it possible to identify the Emperor he alludes about following to the enigma on the mark of the Beast and on the equivalence between the mark, the Beast name and the number of his name. Said enigma is contained in versicles 16-17 of Chapter 13, certainly among the most obscure of all of the Revelation: “(the beast rising from the ground) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead, and that no man might buy or sell, save he that hath the mark, the name of the beast or the number of his name”.
   It has been widely argued about how to read this passage. If the mark on the forehead is generally interpreted as the corresponding satanic seal on the foreheads of the elected (Rev 7:4 and 9:4), more arduous seems to be the explanation of the mark on the hand. Very unlike is the argument where John refers to the fact that fugitive slaves were forehead branded with the name of their master: no hand marks are reported and the image is not suitable for those that don’t flee. 
Neither are convincing the explanations that make reference to the Emperor’s name branded on soldiers’ hands, or simply to the act of the right hand and the head bow of those who sacrified the Emperor.
    Other authors emphasize the allusion to the commercial and mercantile activities and talk about the relationship between manual work and commerce, the satanic control of the right hand, the one to be more involved in commercial transactions, but still cannot identify any specific situations of the ancient business practice that could explain the text itself.
   There are those who propose to see in the detail of the name of the Beast from the sea, as on everyone’s right hand or forehead, a reference to phylacteries (tefillim) of the Jewish tradition which consist of strips of parchment or papyrus bearing Biblical passages rolled up and locked in small boxes bound to turn around the head and left hand. With this John would run into controversy with Judaism that has not adhered to Christianity and that is why, they used to mark on the hand and forehead no longer the word and the name of God, but the name and number of the Beast, direct expression of Satan. Apart from different detail of the hand to which the phylacteries were tied (to the left and not to the right), this reference to Judaism is alien in a context that seems to refer with certainty to the Roman Empire.


Offline FEDERICO D

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2017, 06:37:40 pm »
Actually John, saying that the Beast from the earth “causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark on their right hand” (the mark of the first Beast, the one from the sea), intended to refer to the currency used in the Roman Empire and bearing the portrait of the Emperor to power. What, in fact, that all men of all social classes (“small and great, rich and poor, free and bond”) had if not at least a penny bearing the effigy of the Emperor, his mark?
With the word “mark” we intend, in almost all translations of Revelation, the Greek word used by John in Rev 13:16 that is charagma But said word has a fairly wide range of meanings that besides meaning “mark”, it means “countersign”, in a more generic sense, any type of sign or object left by the pressure of any other object able to leave a specific shape or mark permanently, from a snake bite to the brand stamped with a hot iron on the horses, from a footprint to the currency obtained from a coinage, from the inscription in marble to the writing on a document and, by metonymy, the document itself. Furthermore in other cases the term charagma indicates not only an object obtained by a matrix, but the matrix itself, that is to say the object able to impress a mark, as the coinage that gives shape to the coin and the mold that shapes the terracotta statues.
     The term charagma then, means either the coinage of the mint and the refined object that bears the print that is coin itself: both terms meant John. It is here that everything becomes clear: the mark in the hands of “small and great, rich and poor, free and bond” is the effigy of the Emperor on the coin, printed in negative in the  palm of the hand holding it. The coin obtained from a coinage, from a matrix, becomes matrix itself when held tight in a hand, as it releases a print of the same portrait.
   And the effigy of the Emperor, as well as in the hand of his subjects, is also imprinted in their minds, even “upon their forehead” (Rev 13:16) when they made a calculation of money: if you make a calculation in Roman denarii, it necessarily entail thinking of the legislative image of them: the portrait of the Emperor, in contrast to the image shown on the reverse. And what happens to us today while thinking of the dollars, as general concept, or of any amount of money expressed in dollars: the faces of George Washington or Benjamin Franklin who camp on the green bills immediately come to our mind; their effigy is printed in our minds, that is our “foreheads”.
John goes saying that the Beast causes “that no man might buy or sell, save he that hath the mark, the name of the beast or the number of his name” (Rev 13:17). Well, even this utterance is clear if you can read the reference to coins: in order to buy or sell anything they needed, respectively, giving or receiving coins issued by the Emperor, at the time of John without the coins issued by the former Emperor and bearing his portrait, his “mark”, no one could neither buy nor sell anything. The only other available choice was to go back to bartering if they didn’t wanted to use the coins minted from the unique political authority that dominated “the whole earth” (Rev 13:3) that is the Roman Empire. It then becomes more than necessary to refer to those same coins minted by the Roman Emperor to solve the enigma of number 666.
The function of the coin as a means of payment, a “positive” function as let the user free from any need, seems to be overtaken with the function of propaganda of the ruling ideology and to widespread the Emperor’s portrait:  this function becomes obsessive and oppressive, the effigy of the Emperor is imprinted in the hand of the subject who holds it in his hand making him a private property. Even when the subject makes a mental calculation about money, again the image of the Emperor turns up again in its arrogant and totalizing way, printed in the minds of those who make the calculation.

Offline FEDERICO D

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2017, 06:47:21 pm »
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Offline FEDERICO D

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2017, 06:49:55 pm »
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Offline FEDERICO D

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2017, 06:52:13 pm »
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Offline FEDERICO D

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2017, 06:53:10 pm »
sorry if I posted the entire paragraph but I think it's important to read everything in detail ...

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2017, 10:11:31 am »
This is hilarious!
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Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: The coins of Nero and the Book of the Revelation
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2017, 10:52:34 am »
Too much religion in this thread and not enough numismatics. Lets stop now. 
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