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Author Topic: What to do with powdery patina?  (Read 4691 times)

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Offline Belisarius

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What to do with powdery patina?
« on: September 02, 2011, 03:03:08 pm »
Hello,

I've just got about 50 coins (I'm pretty sure they were found in the UK). All have a very powdery either green or black patina which preserves quite a lot of detail but doesn't let me get the mud off without crumbling itself into dust. What can I do with these? Any tips?

Thanks!

Belisarius
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Offline Randygeki(h2)

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2011, 04:47:11 pm »
Do you have any pics?  Sounds like BD  :-[

Offline areich

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2011, 04:59:38 pm »
To me it sounds just like crumbly patina, the green kind that you can scrub off with a toothbrush and afterwards wonder where all the detail has gone.
Andreas Reich

Offline Belisarius

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2011, 06:10:36 pm »
Nah, not BD - the green is yellowy and light, not blueish like BD at all.

Any tips on dealing with it? I'll try and post a few pictures tomorrow.
"...horum omnium fortissimi sunt belgae!"
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Offline Belisarius

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2011, 06:04:19 pm »
Nah, I'm afraid that none of the photos I take can show the problem. They don't *look* like they've got a problem (especially the black/grey ones).

So is there anything I can do to harden the patina at all?

Thanks
Belisarius
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Offline Randygeki(h2)

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2011, 06:17:10 pm »
I had got some low grade uncleaned that kinda sound like that.  The patina was coming off just from a light rinse. I ended up waxing them and it helped allot. But I do not have the expertise to recommend that.

Offline casata137ec

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2011, 12:06:15 am »
I never have any luck with those...I have had people tell me that olive oil is the way to go with them, but I cannot see why that would be any different than simple water soaks.

I have not tried Randy's suggestion of waxing first, but in theory it sounds like it may not be a bad idea...at least the wax would possibly solidify the crumblies. Can't hurt anyway!

Chris
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Offline Randygeki(h2)

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2011, 02:18:06 am »
The ones I applied it to seem to have much more stable patina after words. I used R wax, after I had set the coins in  a pie die on top a heater to get out moisture.

Offline Belisarius

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2011, 04:06:17 am »
Thanks,

Is that as a prep before working on them, or for trying to preserve them in your collection?

I might as well try everything (I've had a lot of success with olive oil in the past)...need to find some Renaissance Wax...

Thanks!
"...horum omnium fortissimi sunt belgae!"
- Julius Caesar

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Offline Randygeki(h2)

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2011, 04:48:41 am »
The wax? to preserve them for my collection. I've only used it to on a few coins and wouldnt use it on nice coins.

edit: BTW Forvm sells R.wax

Offline areich

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2011, 11:42:22 am »
What can you really do with these? You can, very very carefuly and mechanically clean them if you can or leave them as they are. This is probably one of the few cases where wax is beneficial.
Andreas Reich

Offline Salem Alshdaifat

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2011, 11:57:57 am »
From what you are saying then it is a find patina, photos will be real help to give tips, those kinds of find patina needs different ways of treatment.
if it is just light covering Constantinian coins you should treat it different than Antoninianus.

best.
Salem

Offline slokind

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2011, 04:42:10 pm »
From your description, I think you have one of those pale apple green patinas; they are easily damaged and easily soiled with grease or dirt.  I have a sestertius of Faustina II with such a patina, and, as soon as I get my study room back in order I could post a digital photo of it.  But in the meantime, I'll try to find the old flatbed scan.
I never have seen such a patina except on one of those not-quite-orichalcum Antonine or Severan brass, or nearly brass copper-alloy coins.  If your coin is a basically copper late Romen copper coin, I would be very surprised if it had the pale apple green patina.
Pat L.
Here is a mere snapshot of the Faustina sestertius, holding the camera in one hand, the coin in the other.  It weighs 22.67grams.  The reverse is Diana stg. l., holding her bow in her l. hand and a torch in her right.  You see how fragile that patina is.

Offline Randygeki(h2)

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2011, 07:09:03 pm »
Here one of mine I waxed. Not a great pic but show what I mean well enough

Offline slokind

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2011, 11:43:04 pm »
Still lacking any photo of Belisarius' coin, I posted my Faustina sestertius because, on the chance that his 'pale' and 'yellow-green' 'powdery' (matte) patina is the same, it would be permanently RUINED by wax.  There are coins that do want a little wax.  This rather rare patina is not one  of them!
Pat L.

Offline mwilson603

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2011, 05:45:31 pm »
Whilst not as good a picture as Pat',s this is a late Roman coin with a powdery apple green patina, that I "sealed" with Renwax to protect it.  Slightly different type of patina to Pat's coin I think?
So is the patina like this one?
regards
Mark

Offline SC

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2011, 05:01:07 am »
I don't know if it is the same type of patina as on Pat's wonderul sestertius but I know these powdery patina LRBs all too well.  They are common from UK finds and from lower Austrian finds and I have seen some in Balkan finds too.  They combine the powdery green patina with either parts that have stable, hard green patina and/or a hard thin brown or black dirt layer (which often just sits on more poweder) and/or a very fine beige layer (which I think is just a thinner layer of dirt on the powder).

I have never had much luck cleaning them.

Those with only some powder and an otherwise stable patina can be cleaned normally but often have divots on them after the powder is gone.

I have brushed some of the more powdery ones with soft toothbrush and got all of the powder off but what is left is a coin with very little detail.  I even have one of those very soft, large make-up brushes for brushing these (and believe me over forty year old guys get odd looks buying such brushes) and it can help gently remove the powder.

I have waxed some just like Randy has and got fairly good results though I do not expect such coins to survive for long.  I worry they will still crumble under the wax  I usually only do this if it is a rare mint mark or otherwise desireable coin. 

The rest tend to sit in my "to do" pile while I await the magic solution to this problem.....

Shawn
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Offline Luke G2

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Re: What to do with powdery patina?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2019, 03:50:03 pm »
Having the same prob with some uncleaned coins. Shawn seems to be describing my situation. Thanks to everyone

 

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