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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Parthian and Other Eastern Coins (Moderator: Howard Cole)  |  Topic: My Elymaean Album 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: My Elymaean Album  (Read 14373 times)
Stkp
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« on: October 07, 2017, 03:21:02 pm »

I recently added several Elymaean drachms to my personally gallery. This prompted me to acquire van't Haaff's book on the series, and then to acquire still more drachms. With book in hand, I corrected/fine-tuned my attributions and descriptions of the coins I had previously posted to my gallery (there was just one outright correction and a few fine-tunings). I also created a separate album within my gallery for them:

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=6557

I'm still new with these, so any corrections to my attributions would be appreciated.

Stkp
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Robert L3
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2017, 04:29:09 pm »

Fantastic gallery of Elymaeans.  Looks great.  Congrats.  I've got it bookmarked and will check back from time to time.

Fyi, on your two Prince A's you've got the reverse goddess listed as Athena.  It's Artemis (holding bow).
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quadrans
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2017, 04:55:04 pm »

I agree with Robert, Great album.. Thumbs Up

 Regards
 Q.
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Stkp
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2017, 07:21:00 pm »

Thank you, Robert, both for the compliment and the correction. And thank you, also, Quadrans.
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Stkp
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« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2017, 10:31:46 am »

I recently added two coins to this album. Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated:

Orodes V, van't Haaff 18.1.1-1A
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-140643
The attribution to subtype is based on an obverse feature at 10-11 o'clock, which appears to be the remnant of a legend.

Unknown King, van't Haaff 21.2.1-1
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-140644
This attribution is tentative. Naturally, if the coin should be otherwise attributed, I welcome any suggestions.

Stkp
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Robert L3
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« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2017, 01:24:49 pm »

Great additions, Stkp!  Congrats on the rarity (VH 21.2).

A couple of comments about that coin.  One, while I was almost tempted to see an eagle right on that obverse, I do believe it is a very abstract bust right that should be rotated counterclockwise.  (See below)  I think the curl is a diadem loop, typically omitted or cropped off flan on these issues.  The "eagle's" feathers I interpret as diadem ends.  Compare the loop on the example below yours.

So many of these get quirky renditions of the king's bust - I think yours may take the cake.  (Although the last one below is a definite runner up!)

Two, I think Van't Haaff missed a number of examples that have a single dot above the crescent, and another single dot below - as on your coin, and several of the examples below.  Had he caught these, I'm sure he would have included them as another subtype (".b").  As it is, I guess we should refer to these as 21.2.1-1.a variant (single dot above and below crescent).

This underscores the fact that Elymaean numismatic scholarship has a ways to go before a more complete picture emerges.  For my part, I recently picked up an unpublished tet: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-140438  While it's clearly Phraates (as identified by the tiara), and I am calling it a Van't Haaff 14.8.1-1 variant, it could rightfully be called a unique and unpublished type rather than a variant of an existing type.

I love your gallery.  Keep 'em coming.
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Stkp
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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2017, 10:58:05 pm »

Thank you, Robert, for confirming my attribution. I modified my write-up of the coin to, among other things, include the URL to your discussion. You appear to be correct about the orientation of the coin, which I oriented based on the few details that seemed to correspond with the photo in van't Haaff. It appears that coins with one dot above and one below the crescent are as "common" as those with three dots below. Giving van't Haaff the benefit of the doubt, he may not have missed these. Rather, they may have become available in the decade since his catalog was published.

That is a nice tet, and a great find. I'll have to study it later. So far, my focus has been on the drachms and smaller denominations.

I'll continue posting here as the album grows...

Stkp
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Stkp
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2017, 12:44:27 pm »

The van't Haaf 20.2 pops up more frequently than I realized. Here is another that I stumbled upon:
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Stkp
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2017, 12:59:39 pm »

I just added two more to my gallery:

Orodes IV, van't Haaff 17.2.1-1
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-140909

Prince A, van't Haaff 19.1.1-2
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-140908
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Robert L3
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2017, 01:53:53 pm »

Nice pick-ups, Stkp.  Congrats - well done.  I also just recently added a VH 17.2 Orodes IV drachm, similar to your new addition.  I suspect mine is from the same hoard (which seems to be endless!) and seller.  Haven't had time to photo and upload it yet, though.
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Stkp
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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 06:36:51 pm »

Quote from: Robert L3 on November 05, 2017, 01:53:53 pm
I suspect mine is from the same hoard (which seems to be endless!) and seller

All of the Elymaeans that I have bought from the seller, and the others offered that I have not bought, all have the same patina. This suggests to me that they were all subject to the same soil conditions, which is consistent with them all being from the same hoard. However, the coins offered range from Orodes I (late 1st to early 2nd centuries) through Prince A (late 2nd to early 3rd centuries), per van't Haaff's attribution and chronology. Nor are coins from the beginning or end of the period anomalies; there are many from both ends of the period represented. Wouldn't it be unusual for a hoard to include bronze coins spanning a hundred year period?

Whether or not from a single hoard, they do seem to be endless. I am taking advantage of the opportunity and filling in many blanks in my collection (and upgrading a few).

Stkp
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Stkp
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2017, 09:22:47 am »

I just added three more Elymaeans to my gallery:

Orodes V, van't Haaff 18.1.1-2A (this is an upgrade as I already had one of these in my gallery)
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-141447

Prince A, van't Haaff 19.1.1-1 (this is also an upgrade). My earlier coin of this type is crude -- more so than any example I have ever seen pictured. Might it be a "barbarous imitation"? Any thoughts? Here are links to both:
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-141448 (better specimen)
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-140192 (crude coin)

Unidentified King, van't Haaff 21.1.1-1
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-141444

Thanks for looking.

Stkp
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Robert L3
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2017, 09:40:16 am »

Ah, it was YOU who outbid me on the "better specimen" VH 19.1!  Rats!  Well, I'm glad it went to a good home and to someone who clearly shares my love for this coin series.

Congrats.  Great collection.

- Bob
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Stkp
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« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2017, 07:25:54 pm »

And three more (I couldn't resist):

Kamnaskires-Orodes, van't Haaff 12.3.1-1A
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-141468

Orodes II, van't Haaff 13.1.1-1
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-141467

Phraates, van't Haaff 14.1.1-2A
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-141466

Quote from: Robert L3 on November 26, 2017, 09:40:16 am
Ah, it was YOU who outbid me on the "better specimen" VH 19.1!  Rats!  Well, I'm glad it went to a good home and to someone who clearly shares my love for this coin series.

Small world, Bob. So YOU are the one who bid up the price on my upgraded Prince A, van't Haaff 19.1.1-1. You have enough beauties in your collection, including some from van't Haaff's own collection. I'm glad you don't begrudge me the win (it was the most I;ve paid for an Elymaean drachm).

Any thoughts as to whether my other (crude) example of the type might be an imitative?

Stkp
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Robert L3
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« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2017, 07:49:37 pm »

I think all of your Elymaean coins are official issues.  Of course with coins of the Elymais Arsacid Dynasty, “official” still sometimes equates to crude.

Here are my two pick-up’s from the same hoard and seller.  A Prince A (VH 19.1.1-1A) and an Orodes IV (VH type 17.2).  One is still on its way across the ocean to me.  I probably won’t get them both re-photo’ed and uploaded to my gallery for another month or so…too busy with work these days, unfortunately.


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Stkp
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« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2017, 07:50:50 pm »

They are both nice additions, Robert.
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Stkp
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« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2017, 07:53:49 pm »

I have added six more coins to this album:

Uncertain Early Arsacid Kings (late 1st century B.C. to early 2nd century B.C.), van't Haaff 10.4.2-4A
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-142367

Kamnaskires-Orodes (early mid 2nd Century A.D.), van't Haaff 12.2.1-1A
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-142365

Elymais. Arsacid dynasty. Orodes II (early-mid 2nd century A.D.), van't Haaff 13.3.2-2B
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-142366

Phraates (late 1st century to early 2nd century A.D.), van't Haaff 14.7.2-2A
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-142363

Orodes IV (ca. 2nd half of 2nd century A.D.), van't Haaff 17.3.1-1
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-142364

Unidentified King (uncertain dates), van't Haaff 21.1.1-2
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-142362

Stkp





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Robert L3
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« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2017, 08:03:18 pm »

Great new set of drachms.  Well done!
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quadrans
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« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2017, 11:15:39 pm »

Hahhh.

Nice group  Thumbs Up

Congratulations

Q.

Happy Seasonal Greetings..

Q.
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peterpil19
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« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2017, 04:46:40 am »

Well done on your latest acquisitions!  Thumbs Up

Peter
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Stkp
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« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2017, 05:04:21 pm »

Thank you, Robert, Quadrans and Peter
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Stkp
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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2018, 10:10:24 am »

I just added to my gallery an Unidentified King, van't Haaff 21.2.1-1 var. The coin is interesting because the bust faces left rather than right.
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-144021
Stkp
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Robert L3
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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2018, 10:22:40 am »

Interesting variant!  I expect it's unpublished.  Congrats!
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Stkp
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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2018, 10:24:39 am »

Thank you, Robert. I have yet to see a classic example with the configuration of dots as per van't Haaff. Stkp
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Stkp
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2018, 08:52:41 pm »

I just posted a second van't Haaff 10.4.2-4A (Uncertain Early Arsacid Kings) to my gallery. The coin is unusual due to the crudeness of the obverse bust.
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-144144
Stkp

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