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Author Topic: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?  (Read 5791 times)

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Offline Perikles

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2017, 06:44:18 pm »
Hallo everybody,
the Greek coinage is full of hidden secrets to be discovered and if somebody is interested in collecting only greek coins with mythological comics-like creatures and portraits of Alexander III lacks in discovering the enormous fascinating world, that is hidden behind every type and version.

I explain why:

a) the greek alphabet is not a tremendous problem for someone to understand it. It is not chinese, not arabic (i mean that it looks like english). I think that everybody can easily read Λ, Ω, Ψ, Γ, Δ, Θ, Ξ, Π, Σ, Φ. It takes little to learn them. And if somebody is good in algebra can remember the letters α, β, γ, λ, π, ρ. Also the direct contact with the greek inscriptions can give a better sense of words, that come from them (for example ΔΗΜΟΣ (democracy), ΑΥΤΟ- (auto-), ΑΣΥΛΟΥ (asylum) e.t.c.).

b) It is not the mythological creatures only interesting but the flora and fauna for example of that time to be studied. And there are hundred new types that give us new information every time about that. Architecture, coif, attire information also (like romans too). And many types are not yet adequately explained by major historians and numismatists. Every greek specialist knows that the Socratic paradox "I know that I know nothing" applies to greek coinage.

c) It is not necessary for someone to buy an expensive extremely fine greek coin to enjoy the beauty of art, the harmony of bodies of men and animals and the look of portraits, that many times expresses the inner personality of the god or goddess, without being "naturalistic". Many bronze little AE8 or AE14 coins for example, even in very fine condition, are to be admired for the beauty, expression and artistry of the heads on obverse. And many of these greek tiny fractions 10-5 mm include fantastic details and artistic abilities.

d) Nothing on greek coins is accidental. Let the collectors give an explanation of them and study their coins.

e) I give some collecting categories as proposal, according to:
1) the special names of each god in each area of the greek world.
2) denomination of each city
3) city of each region
4) roman emperors of each city (roman provincial)
5) monograms of each city
6) countermark on coins of each city
7) architectural themes
8 ) fauna
9) flora
and many many others like for example the categories of the coin shop of Forum Ancient Coins.

Collecting and studying greek coins can last for the whole life, if somebody is interested in it.

Thank you
Perikles
Ἐξ ἀνάγκης ἡ τοῦ νομίσματος ἐπορίσθη χρῆσις...,ὃ τῶν χρησίμων αὐτὸ ὂν εἶχε τὴν χρείαν εὐμεταχείριστον πρὸς τὸ ζῆν.
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Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2017, 10:10:36 pm »
I think that everybody can easily read Λ, Ω, Ψ, Γ, Δ, Θ, Ξ, Π, Σ, Φ. It takes little to learn them. And if somebody is good in algebra can remember the letters α, β, γ, λ, π, ρ.

Perikles

Hi Per,

I think you have hit upon another excellent point, and it may further explain my interest in Greek coins.

As many long-term Forum members already know (but newer Forum members may not know), I come from a science and engineering background. I have no formal education in the classics. My college degrees are in physics and engineering. Obviously, while in college, I took numerous physics and engineering classes. I also took 6 semesters of calculus (4 semesters in high school and 2 semesters in college). All of those classes frequently use letters in the Greek alphabet. So, I was already familiar with them.

In a way, it didn't make collecting, studying, and understanding Greek coins so "scary" or intimidating.

Meepzorp

Offline Perikles

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2017, 03:38:59 am »
Hi Meepzorp,

you have totally right! I am glad to hear that.
Ἐξ ἀνάγκης ἡ τοῦ νομίσματος ἐπορίσθη χρῆσις...,ὃ τῶν χρησίμων αὐτὸ ὂν εἶχε τὴν χρείαν εὐμεταχείριστον πρὸς τὸ ζῆν.
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Offline djmacdo

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2017, 09:02:21 am »
Agreed.  One can, for example, make a very nice collection of Seleucid bronzes at a very low cost.  Certainly, there are some rare, expensive Seleucid bronzes, but a wide variety of types from many rulers can be found with a little patience at very reasonable prices.

Offline ickster

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2017, 01:16:49 pm »
Quote from: Mycenae on September 18, 2017, 09:28:56 pm
I'd feel bad about diving into a hobby if the collector base is dwindling, like it is with stamps.

I personally wouldn't use popularity of a hobby as a motivating factor. Does the idea of the hobby excite you on some level and give you pleasure? That's the key. I sometimes think I may be the only ancient coin collector in British Columbia up here in Canada, but that isn't a factor in continuing collecting. Instead, I find pleasure in learning from the various experts that post here and elsewhere about many facets of the hobby, and enjoy "the hunt" of something I can afford at any given time (as measured against the other priorities in life) and that appeals to me. The final enjoyment is whenever I pull out the coins and admire something made so many years ago and usually associated with some great event the past.


Offline djmacdo

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2017, 07:05:07 pm »
I do not think the base is in decline.  Prices in auction keep rising, more and more new collectors seem to be showing up at Forum.  Somethings are changing.  there seem to be fewer shows--but much more online action.

Offline JBF

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2017, 09:38:44 pm »
I think of Roman as being more on the beaten path, whereas I think Greek is more adventuresome, more unknown, and therefore, as researching history, potentially more fruitful.  One can read sources, ancient and modern on a denarius of Nero, and of course, enjoy the colorful stories.  A Theban stater with the abbreviation of the magistrate, or a Syracusan diobol is more of a cypher.  In one way, one is very limited in what one can read into it, in another way it can quite open.  What does the Beoetian shield mean?  Read the Iliad, and everything since then.  How can one not love Arethusa, the nymph with the dolphins circling around?  Probably the only nymph on coins that we have an attribution for, other than "the eponymous" nymph of Segesta...(etc.)  I wonder about the true names of nymphs of Segesta, Velia, etc.  But I like the fact that we don't know everything about antiquity, both because that means there is something to explore, but also because it means that it is not under control, we can't define it, and because we can't ever define it, we can't dismiss it either, we can ignore it, but that is something altogether different.

If you look at comedy, tragedy, philosophy, one finds that they all have a Greek origin.  And as far as philosophy is concerned, it is said, "Philosophy is Plato and Plato is philosophy." and "All of philosophy is a footnote to Plato."  Well, the same thing is true of numismatics, most of numismatics is ancient numismatics (because we don't have mint records or a tradition behind the coins and so we have to investigate), and I would venture to guess that most of ancient numismatics is ancient Greek numismatics, not in quantity, but in terms of variety.  The medium is new, and the attitude towards it in ancient Greece seems to be rather experimental.  For example, facing heads tend to be hard on dies, but they make great art.

Don't get me wrong, I like a nice Roman Sesterii, and Celtic coins are psychedelic.  But usually when I look at coins, I think to myself that, "it is Greek to me." ;)

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2017, 08:20:24 am »
In a sense, perhaps this discussion is futile.  We are trying to address rationally why people prefer to collect Roman or Greek coins when collecting itself is for at least many of us (certainly me) a deeply irrational vocation.  For me collecting is a compulsion--I could not stop doing it even if I wanted to stop.  I really do not know why I prefer collecting in the several small areas that I do, and I think that is probably true of at least a number of other collectors.  I did not chose to collect Greek,  It is almost as if it chose me.  For me, it is an addiction.

Offline Perikles

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2017, 05:32:20 pm »
djmacdo, i am afraid, that i agree with you...  ;)
Ἐξ ἀνάγκης ἡ τοῦ νομίσματος ἐπορίσθη χρῆσις...,ὃ τῶν χρησίμων αὐτὸ ὂν εἶχε τὴν χρείαν εὐμεταχείριστον πρὸς τὸ ζῆν.
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Offline n.igma

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2017, 10:20:43 pm »
Quote from: Mycenae on September 18, 2017, 09:28:56 pm
I'm starting to learn about collecting ancients. I am currently much more interested in ancient Greece and their coinage, but I've observed that Roman coins seem to be much more popular. There are a lot more Roman postings on forums, more references (at least the basic ones) and dealer inventory is typically a lot more Roman. Is the Greek coin collecting hobby healthy? I'd feel bad about diving into a hobby if the collector base is dwindling, like it is with stamps.

I think the conclusion from all the input is that the perception you have is incorrect, as are a lot of perceptions in this day and age.

And the answer to your question is that Greek coin collecting is very healthy. This answer shouldn't be a surprise given the the competition for quality Greek coins in auctions (reflected in prices) and is only reconcilable to your perception if the latter is incorrect.
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2017, 04:17:39 pm »
Thanks for all the opinions. Sounds like even if there are more Roman collectors, it's not a reflection of any underlying issue with the Greek coin market.

Too bad there aren't many ancient coin shows or brick and mortar dealers. It would be nice to browse the items in person rather than all on the internet.

Offline JBF

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2017, 10:05:32 pm »
I imagine that even small coin shows have dealers with a few ancients, the fact that they are modern coin dealers means that they sometimes don't know what they have, and thus you can something that they sort of just want to unload, for an excellent price.  But you are right, in order to do that, you have to have the knowledge, and the best way to get that knowledge is through people who specialize in ancients.

You might look at the website of the Berlin Museum (I forget exactly what it is called), but they have a thing were you can put together with coins from their website, a virtual collection.  I think that it was Leo Mittenburg who was (deceased now?) a dealer, who put together a virtual collection of the best coins he had ever seen.  I think that name is right, but in any case it is on the internet, and is worth checking out for both its aesthetic and educational merit.

I don't agree with him, but a friend likes to quote someone who said that ? "ancient coin collecting is greed with a thin veneer of scholarship." btw, he collects ancients.  Also, I don't think that everything is explainable, but that does not mean it is irrational, maybe it supra-rational, or as Pascal said, "the heart has its reasons, that reason will never know."  But maybe that is just the mystic in me... ;)  In any case, where there is a will, there is a way.  If there is going to be a next step, only you can figure out what it is, for you that is.

Oh, one thing ancient Greek coins are not stamp collecting.  Ancient Greek coin collecting goes back to the renaissance, and (I have heard), some hoards from antiquity seem to be collections.  Of course, Roman collections may be more common, and also date back to the renaissance, but my point is that coins are not going to go away, immensely more durable than stamps too.

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2017, 03:16:19 am »
In a sense, perhaps this discussion is futile.  We are trying to address rationally why people prefer to collect Roman or Greek coins when collecting itself is for at least many of us (certainly me) a deeply irrational vocation.  For me collecting is a compulsion--I could not stop doing it even if I wanted to stop.  I really do not know why I prefer collecting in the several small areas that I do, and I think that is probably true of at least a number of other collectors.  I did not chose to collect Greek,  It is almost as if it chose me.  For me, it is an addiction.

Hi djm,

I agree!!! :)

You hit the nail on the head, especially the phrase: "I did not choose to collect Greek, it is almost as if it chose me."

But I think you can state that about any person's collecting/addiction/compulsion, whatever it is that particular person collects or is attracted to. In my case, it is certainly true regarding ancient coins (especially Greek Italy) and third-generation (1979-1993) high-performance Ford Mustangs.

Meepzorp

Offline OldMoney

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2017, 11:19:12 am »
I think that it was Leo Mittenburg who was (deceased now?) a dealer, who put together a virtual collection of the best coins he had ever seen.

FYI: I believe the name you mean is Leo Mildenberg (1913-2001).

http://www.coinsweekly.com/en/Archive/Leo-Mildenberg/8?&id=78&type=a

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Offline JBF

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Re: Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2017, 05:03:10 pm »
Thank you Walter, I had hoped that someone more knowledgable than me would recover my fumble. 

 

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