Why aren't there more Greek coin collectors?

[Mycenae]

I'm starting to learn about collecting ancients. I am currently much more interested in ancient Greece and their coinage, but I've observed that Roman coins seem to be much more popular. There are a lot more Roman postings on forums, more references (at least the basic ones) and dealer inventory is typically a lot more Roman. Is the Greek coin collecting hobby healthy? I'd feel bad about diving into a hobby if the collector base is dwindling, like it is with stamps.

[stevex6]

Greek coins rock!!

 

They are usually a bit more expensive (older than Roman coins) ... but I absolutely "love" Greek coins

=> but I find that a sweet mix of both will keep ya honest! (best of both worlds)

Greeks have those cool mythological creatures (pretty hard to beat)

... oh, but the Roman coins have a lot of Military history (pretty straight-forward collecting ruler, after ruler, after ruler, etc)

I'm with you => I'm much more attracted to the Greek coins

man => I know that there'll be a bunch of Roman dudes stormin' in to defend their side of the hobby!

 

[Mat]

I enjoy greeks but own very little. Mainly it's due to cost. There is also the fact many silver types are counterfeited and some are hard to tell if they are fake to the average collector.

[Joe Sermarini]

The primary reasons Roman coins appear to be more popular are price and ease of understanding. Some decent Roman coins can be purchased for under $25. Greek coins are more expensive. Most people can read the Latin alphabet. Fewer are familiar with the Greek alphabet.

Since Greek coins are more expensive, and demand is part of price, Greek coins are more popular by at least one measure.

[Meepzorp]

Hi Myc,

I prefer Greek coins to Roman coins, especially Greek Italy.

For confirmation of this fact, just look at my website.

Meepzorp

[Mycenae]

Wow, that's a lot of Greek coins. I see why they are so expensive now, you've bought them all! 

I guess I can kind of see why Roman appears more popular if you assume there is a larger collector base at lower price points. But as Joe pointed out, there is a supply and demand consideration as well. Maybe the supply of Roman is much greater than the supply of Greek?

Or maybe in the olden days folks took Latin in high school but surely almost no one took ancient Greek?

Or because everyone knows about Julius Caesar but probably 1 in 100 know about Pericles?

[Meepzorp]

I guess I can kind of see why Roman appears more popular if you assume there is a larger collector base at lower price points. But as Joe pointed out, there is a supply and demand consideration as well. Maybe the supply of Roman is much greater than the supply of Greek?

Or maybe in the olden days folks took Latin in high school but surely almost no one took ancient Greek?

Or because everyone knows about Julius Caesar but probably 1 in 100 know about Pericles?

Hi Myc,

I am sure that these are all major contributing factors.

Meepzorp

[Meepzorp]

Wow, that's a lot of Greek coins. I see why they are so expensive now, you've bought them all! 

Hi Myc,

 

Actually, it is the result of 19 years of dedication and basically having no life.

Meepzorp

[Arados]

I started of collecting Roman but soon turned my attention to Persian and Greek, specifically coins of Phoenicia. There are so many different areas of collecting, read some literature and then decide which branch of collecting interests you the most. The journey is a fascinating one and rewarding.

[djmacdo]

Roman coins are in a sense already organized, while the Greek coins, issued from a large variety of sources and over a long time, are chaotic, at least until one has much experience with them and find a particular interest.

[Carausius]

Along the same lines as djmacdo's point, to many collectors, Roman coins are more approachable, both because their  organization of moneyers and rulers fits into the "penny board" mentality that many of us grew-up with, and because the Latin letters are less of an impediment to those who can't read Greek.  Greek coinage is temporally and geographically vast and linguistically foreign - a seemingly imposing challenge to the uninitiated.

[Joss]

I used to be fond of Greek coins but I have stopped collecting them because:
- they're much more expensive.
- there are tons of fakes, many very well made and sold by respectable dealers; it really puts me off. This is the decisive factor for me.
- usually a Roman coin tells you more, simply because there is more text on it. The Greeks could keep the same legends for centuries.

I don't think the apparent "mess" of so many Greek cities/kingdoms is a problem, on the contrary, there are more areas to collect.

[Joss]

Wow, that's a lot of Greek coins. I see why they are so expensive now, you've bought them all!  

Hi Myc,

 

Actually, it is the result of 19 years of dedication and basically having no life.

Meepzorp

That's a sad way to present your fabulous collection.  

[Mycenae]

- there are tons of fakes, many very well made and sold by respectable dealers; it really puts me off. This is the decisive factor for me.

The fakes problem is worrisome. I know that many ancients collectors shy away from certified coins, but wouldn't certification help eliminate the fakes to a large degree?

[OldMoney]

- there are tons of fakes, many very well made and sold by respectable dealers; it really puts me off. This is the decisive factor for me.

I think Joss grossly overstates this as a being a significant problem.

This *may* be a problem for the novice, in which case they really should be
buying only from reputable sources {ie: Forum, me , etc.}.
However, once you gain more than a little experience then 90%+ of fakes
become quite obvious and easy to detect and cease to be a major problem.
Moreso when you visit and read about fakes at the various warning sites.

It is really only the high-end, high-quality fakes that are of any concern to the
more experienced collector (and sometimes to dealers). In which case there
are great resources for determining which are which, and dealers will refund
and correct any errors that may have been made inadvertently.

In other words, not a great problem!

It is when novice and "ignorant" collectors go beyond their abilities, against
most or even all warnings, and buy something that is "too good to be true",
and then find out it was "too good to be legal"!

Buying from shoddy sellers on social media sites, from online auction sites
where the seller is on the 'NFSL' (or should be), or from archaeological sites
around the world, where 99.9% is fake and priced outrageously, are among
the many things that fake sellers rely on to ply their nasty trade. They also
rely on the ignorance and greed of the novice. The warning signs are there
and they are usually VERY clear; ignore them at your own peril.

Common sense will lead you in the right direction, for the most part. Relying
on experts in their respective fields, whether dealers or specialist academics,
should give the best chance that a fake will not pass unquestioned.

In short, learn from the experts, read the books, buy from reputable dealers,
and listen to the warnings, whether from your peers or from your own head.
This should keep you in fairly good stead, whatever you choose to collect.

Walter Holt

[n.igma]

The less people collect the Greek series the happier I am. Less competition and price pressure is exactly what I want. So I want to discourage all those who might consider collecting Greek coins to go for the far less challenging Romans. Therefore be afraid, very afraid of the Greeks!  

[OldMoney]

The less people collect the Greek series the happier I am. Less competition and price pressure is exactly what I want. So I want to discourage all those who might consider collecting Greek coins to go for the far less challenging Romans. Therefore be afraid, very afraid of the Greeks!  

I am always willing to adjust my views upon receipt of new evidence.

In this case, following n.igma's contribution, I am moved to change my
position and now also want to discourage anyone from buying Greek
coins, or Roman Provincials, or coins of Ephesus, or the Macedonian
Kings (especially the ones I don't have), those from Lesbos, and a few
more (I can send a list, if needed). Leave them to me, I'll take it upon
myself to bear the burden and take the risks.

Thanks for the clarification and new 'evidence' n.igma!

Walter

[Joe Sermarini]

- there are tons of fakes, many very well made and sold by respectable dealers; it really puts me off. This is the decisive factor for me.

Maybe you need to rethink your definition of respectable dealers? Two years of chatting here but not one purchase from Forum.

[Brennos]

I'm not sure that the price is really a problem. With internet, tons of fine and affordable greek coins are offered, starting with the ones offered on this forum which are guaranteed.

To appreciate the greek coins, you probably have to appreciate the greek culture as a whole wich is probably a hard stuff for an american average Joe

And to be honest, the best topics about greek coins are by far the ones of the italian forum where experts and passionates share their knowledge and reflections.


 
 

[n.igma]

... And to be honest, the best topics about greek coins are by far the ones of the italian forum where experts and passionates share their knowledge and reflections.

Yes this board is unusually Romancentric.

Ironic isn't it that the Italian's are Graecophiles, while the Americans and Brits seem to prefer the Romans! 

[Meepzorp]

Hi n,

Maybe that's why I like/prefer Greek (and especially Greek Italy) coins. As many long-term Forum members already know (but some newer Forum members may not know), I am a third-generation American of 100% Italian descent. All 4 of my grandparents came from Italy.

I guess, in that sense (my preference for Greek coins), I am more "Italian" than "American".

Meepzorp

[n.igma]

... I guess, in that sense (my preference for Greek coins), I am more "Italian" than "American".

Thinking about it, even in Roman times the Romans (Italians) had a strong leaning to Greek art and culture, while the Greek influence on Roman culture was quite pervasive. So I guess it should be a surprise that it is the  "italian forum where experts and passionates share their knowledge and reflections."

The less easily answered question is why for the Americans it is ancient "Greek culture as a whole which is probably a hard stuff for an american average Joe"?

Certainly, Roman hegemony shaped western Europe from whence many Americans and their institutions originate, and maybe that is why it is easier for Americans to relate to Roman rather than Greek coinage?

But then these are generalizations. Proportionately, I suspect that there are as many US Greek coin collectors as there are elsewhere.

Maybe Greek collectors on the whole are just a bit more reclusive than their Roman counterparts? This would fit with the usual progression of development a a Greek coin collector from Roman to Greek coinage, with the result that Greek collectors tend to be of the older demographic and less engaged in discussion fora and social media.

[Jochen]

Yes this board is unusually Romancentric.
Ironic isn't it that the Italian's are Graecophiles, while the Americans and Brits seem to prefer the Romans! 

It's the same in the German Forum. There we have on the Roman Board 11145 themes and 182085 contributions, whereas the Greek Board has only 2239 themes with 18035 contributions.

Best regards

[Sap]

As I see it, the main barriers to Greek collecting are:

- Linguistic. As others have stated, for a typical Westerner, the Latin alphabet is immediately readable (even if the abbreviations are confusing). Greek coins are both abbreviated and in an alien script.

- Availability. There are plenty of cheap Roman coins, often found in countries where buying and selling ancient coins is neither illegal nor immoral; many people who live in these countries (such as Britain) get their start in ancient Romans by actually digging up or finding a Roman coin themselves. Greek coins are scarcer to begin with, and are usually only found in countries where buying and selling ancient coins is either illegal or tightly regulated.

- Price. This is mainly due to the scarcity mentioned above.

- Disorder. As noted by others above, Roman coins can be collected by several "common" themes which collectors of modern coins are already familiar with: "one from each emperor" or "one from each mintmark". Greek coins are not so easily sorted, or rather, the categories tend to be much broader or more obscure: "one from each coin-issuing city-state"; "one from each Hellenistic monarch"; "one from each year-date of Tyrian shekels". Greek coins also tend to be sorted by geographic region, so you really need to have a good grasp of ancient Mediterranean geography before you can even begin.

- Lack of readily available information. Related to the "Disorder" mentioned above: obtaining a comprehensive catalogue of Greek coins with up-to-date pricing is much harder than obtaining a similarly comprehensive Roman catalogue. In that sense, Greek coin collecting is still very much at the same state that "world coin collecting" was back in the pre-WWII era, before comprehensive world coin catalogues were invented.

[dougsmit]

Several have made the point that Greek coins are expensive but I see thousands of very cheap Greek coins in the same general bracket as cheap late Romans.  Unfortunately they are small bronzes, usually not all that well struck and not all that easy to identify.  Some may be quite rare but not in high enough demand to cause dealers to put the trouble into them necessary to sort the 'good' ones from towns people know from the unidentified or conjecturally placed bits of ugliness.  In many cases it is harder to research a low priced, well used bronze with a fair price of $10 than a $10k tetradrachm so we can't expect dealers to put a lot of work into them.  It is easy to see why the high-art, high price Greeks are popular but we have few people specializing in crude AE10 (the cheap ones).  Not all types come in FDC.  Not all collectors will seek coins that average VG.

[Perikles]

[Meepzorp]

[Perikles]

[djmacdo]

[ickster]

[djmacdo]

[JBF]

[djmacdo]

[Perikles]

[n.igma]

[Mycenae]

[JBF]

[Meepzorp]

[OldMoney]

[JBF]