A dot on the chin Manuel.

[Simon]

I have noticed that on the copper coinage of Manuel all of the Christ Portraits have a  dot on the chin. I first noticed the marks while looking for beards on Christ portraits trying to prove the differences between Manuel SBCV -1978 and SBCV-1981 , I have yet to find a coin without it clearly being used.

The dot is not exclusive to Christ  portraits of Ma, it does also seem to appear infrequently on other coins issued by him. The design does not appear on the earlier coinage of John II and Alexius and the dots do appear in post Manuel coinage but not with the same consistency.

My question to the board is this an artistic symbol? Or is it a tool used by the mint ?

Example photos of coins in my collection.

[Simon]

It is not exclusive to the Christ portraits but there it seems to be consistent , it also occurs in other portraits on coins during his reign but these portraits can also be found without it .  Here are two examples that again have the dot on the chin, Including his own portrait  and of the Virgin. I originally thought the dots  represented a beard but the Virgin dot made that very unlikely.

[Joe Sermarini]

It think it is likely that engraving process started with three (or more) punches to guide the engraver, much the way artists today sometimes start with grids and shapes when drawing or painting. I also think the chin pellet simply represents the chin bone in the same way that dots represent the eyes.

[Simon]

I agree with you that was done to aid with the engraving.  It is an interesting practice that seems to appear during the reign of Manuel but tapers off shortly after that.

I did spend time last night looking to see if it had any religious significance but I could find none.  I work with art for a living and one of the aspects of my job is working with Albrecht Durer woodcuts and engravings, they include old symbols that we sometimes do not associate with Christianity.

[Chrismon]

I've always found these dots quite interesting. Here's another one from the obverse of SB 2036, a Latin trachy (obverse Christ, reverse St. Michael).

[Chrismon]

There also appear to be similar chin dots on some Trebizond issues, for example John II (http://labarum.info/lbr/show.php?coin=26090) and Theodora (http://labarum.info/lbr/show.php?coin=26180).

[Simon]

Interesting , especially the silver Trebizond issue.

In my collection I had noticed it only on the very small issues like your Latin trachy, most of the coins shown above are half tetartera, the one exception is the Virgin coin, the is a full Tetarteron from Constantinople.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I agree with you that was done to aid with the engraving.  It is an interesting practice that seems to appear during the reign of Manuel but tapers off shortly after that.

I did spend time last night looking to see if it had any religious significance but I could find none.  I work with art for a living and one of the aspects of my job is working with Albrecht Durer woodcuts and engravings, they include old symbols that we sometimes do not associate with Christianity.

What you say about Durer woodcuts sounds really interesting.

[Simon]

It is interesting Robert, he used symbols we do not typically see with Christianity. One of my favorites is a depiction of the virgin with a monkey chained to her, it ment she had her beast side under control. You can find his images easily on line, check out the Apocalypse series, created when the world was thought to end in 1500.

[djmacdo]

I think these are not dots in the chin but rather just a simple and rather crude way to indicate the chin.  Wear makes that less evident and cruder in appearance.

[Byzantofil]

This is a detail accentuating attention, like a bright glare in the brightest spot. Well, or just the accent of the most convex place. Just an artistic device.

[Simon]

I know this is a bit of a long shot but I am noticing on bearded versions of Manuel the dot is made to be a mouth but it seems to be the same dimensions as the other versions so the head appears more elongated. That leaves me to think the triangle is uniform and is used as a tool by the engravers more than artistic design.  

Bellow is a latter issue by Isaac II

I am on the road now so I cannot check but  I am curios to see if their is a uniformity of the triangle, some sort of template device . I think I will try to measure the triangles to see if they are all consistent that might indicate that  it was a tool being  used on all of his coinage and some of the rulers that followed.