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Author Topic: Greek AE - ID Help Please: Male Head / Bunch of Grapes  (Read 998 times)

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Offline OldMoney

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Greek AE - ID Help Please: Male Head / Bunch of Grapes
« on: July 23, 2017, 03:30:42 pm »
This particular item has me stumped. Weight: 1.64g; Diam: 12mm.

This is not mine, unfortunately, I missed it at auction where it was described
(I believe incorrectly) as being from Skamandreia in the Troad.

Those that are from Skamandreia are said to show a Pine Cone, whereas
this seems to show a bunch of grapes, with the typical extra grapes to each
side (do a search for grapes, and they nearly all appear this way).

The letters above are not clear, but the one to the right of the stem appears
to be an "A". To the left, it could be a "T", a "Γ", or perhaps something else.
TA is typical of Temnos, but this does not appear to be a match to anything I
have found from that city, and the letters are usually placed below.

What has got me stumped even more, is that the bidding on this went quite
high, and from an early stage. Perhaps indicating that more than one person
knew where it was from, and that it is apparently "rare and valuable".

Anyone recognise this coin? <dealer's image> Suggestions welcomed.

Walter Holt
Coins of Ephesus
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Walter Holt's Old Money - Ancient Coins
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Offline Altamura

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Re: Greek AE - ID Help Please: Male Head / Bunch of Grapes
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2017, 03:46:20 pm »
Isegrim says:

ERD:   AM
PRO:   CARIA
PO :   TABAE
   Vorderseite
VT :   KOPF MANN R / APOLLO
VA :   KRANZ LORBEER
   Rückseite
RSG:   TA
RT :   FRUCHT WEINTRAUBE
   Technische Daten
M  :   AE
GR :   12(1)
   Literatur
ZIT:   SVORONOS JIAN 1903 S184,50(1) / COLL MAVROMICHAELIS(1)
   Freitexte
FR :   RS: TA

Perhaps a possibility.

Regards

Altamura

Offline okidoki

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Re: Greek AE - ID Help Please: Male Head / Bunch of Grapes
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2017, 03:50:15 pm »
 +++

nice find walter
All the Best,
Eric
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Offline Molinari

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Offline OldMoney

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Re: Greek AE - ID Help Please: Male Head / Bunch of Grapes
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2017, 10:12:21 am »
Maybe like this:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-135635

Thanks Molinari,
Unless I am mistaken, your Perperene is only about 1g and c.10mm.
It also has tendrils and leaves that the subject item lacks (+ ethnic).
All the best,

Walter
Coins of Ephesus
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Walter Holt's Old Money - Ancient Coins
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Offline OldMoney

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Re: Greek AE - ID Help Please: Male Head / Bunch of Grapes
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2017, 10:19:18 am »
Isegrim says:

ERD:   AM
PRO:   CARIA
PO :   TABAE
   Vorderseite
VT :   KOPF MANN R / APOLLO
VA :   KRANZ LORBEER
   Rückseite
RSG:   TA
RT :   FRUCHT WEINTRAUBE
   Technische Daten
M  :   AE
GR :   12(1)
   Literatur
ZIT:   SVORONOS JIAN 1903 S184,50(1) / COLL MAVROMICHAELIS(1)
   Freitexte
FR :   RS: TA

Perhaps a possibility.

Regards

Altamura

Thanks Altamura,
I was unaware of an issue of this reverse type from Tabae!
Do you know whether an image is available? Is JIAN Illustrated?

Walter
Coins of Ephesus
https://groups.yahoo.com/group/ephesuscoins
Walter Holt's Old Money - Ancient Coins
https://www.oldmoney.com.au
Sydney, Australia

Offline Altamura

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Re: Greek AE - ID Help Please: Male Head / Bunch of Grapes
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2017, 01:01:33 pm »
You can see the cited page of JIAN 1903 here: https://archive.org/stream/journalinternati67sboruoft#page/n203/mode/2up
but unfortunately this coin is not illustrated  :-\ .

I did a little research to find this type in other collections being online, but I didn't succeed  :( . This seems to be a really rare coin.

Regards

Altamura

Offline OldMoney

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Re: Greek AE - ID Help Please: Male Head / Bunch of Grapes
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2017, 07:18:29 pm »
You can see the cited page of JIAN 1903 here: https://archive.org/stream/journalinternati67sboruoft#page/n203/mode/2up
but unfortunately this coin is not illustrated  :-\ .

I did a little research to find this type in other collections being online, but I didn't succeed  :( . This seems to be a really rare coin.

Regards

Altamura

Hi Altamura,

I was about to post the exactly same thing when I saw your apparently
almost simultaneous message. I also found the archive.org JIAN file and was
in the process of reading the text part, but as you say, no images.
However, as it was already after 3am here, I was too tired to compose and
send a reply. This will belatedly have to do instead! At least I am a little
more awake and alert now - to some extent! Hehe

I suspect that the Mavromichaelis Collection is now in Athens (or dispered?),
but can anyone confirm that, or know differently?

With regard to the coins itself, however, I would prefer to get some sort of
match with an image - somehow - before confirming anything one way or
the other. Tabae is good for the moment, and the most likely candidate for
now, but I think you will agree that some room for doubt remains. Even if the
details as listed in the JIAN are accurate, does that necessarily mean that
Svoronos was correct in his attribution of the item. Especially given that the
ethnic "T-A" equally applies to coins from Temnos. I have to wonder what it
was, specifically, that lead him to Tabae. Lots of questions!

I missed it this time around, but at least I have a better idea of what it may
be if ever a similar one comes up again. On the positive side of things, I was
fortunate enough to get another nice - and rare! - piece that was also listed
as being unidentified. I will save that post for when I get the coin in hand.

All the best,

Walter
Coins of Ephesus
https://groups.yahoo.com/group/ephesuscoins
Walter Holt's Old Money - Ancient Coins
https://www.oldmoney.com.au
Sydney, Australia

Offline Altamura

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Re: Greek AE - ID Help Please: Male Head / Bunch of Grapes
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2017, 06:54:46 am »
Hi Walter,

you are right, the attribution to Tabai cannot be taken for granted, that's why I wrote of a possibility, it is not more  :-\ .

I don't know what happened with this Mavromichaelis collection, so at the moment there is no other place to look for the coin.

Regards

Altamura

 

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