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Author Topic: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!  (Read 15651 times)

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Offline OldMoney

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Inspired by a couple of recent encounters with a couple of Extraordinary,
Remarkable and/or Outstanding Overstrikes
, I am motivated to ask others
about their own encounters with their own  truly Noteworthy examples.

I'd prefer to keep this thread as narrow as possible, so as one example I
would like to mention the following item that readily came to mind:
A Judaean Zuz, struck during the Bar Kochba war, that was struck over a
Denarius of Vespasian showing the Judaea Capta reverse.
(unfortunately I don't have an image of one of these [can you assist?]).

I have posted a couple of other pieces below, including:
1) Parthia: Vonones overstruck on a Phraates and Musa Tetradrachm;
2) Boeotian AE overstruck on an Antigonos Gonatas AE;
3) Valerian I Antoninianus struck over a denarius of Severus Alexander.
(images from the relevant dealers, with thanks)

Others that I have not illustrated include various Southern Italian 'incusae'
and other types that were struck over other Italian or Sicilian coins. There
are many examples of bronzes being overstruck on earlier issues, etc.

As may be seen, these are (mostly) completely separate types, generally
struck by rulers and/or authorities separated by distance and time.

I am also aware of, for example, Byzantine AEs struck over earlier Roman
coins. I think someone suggested that the record separation in time and
types was in the order of about 800 or so years.

Try to limit submissions to those where both overtypes and undertypes are
each clear and easily recognisable. The more dramatic, the better. Similarly,
the more distant the types, whether in time or place, the better. I personally
find these among the most fascinating. Do you agree?

Please don't post the mere run-of-the-mill, standard or common types,
just those that stand out for a variety of reasons.

Let's try to post the best and clearest examples possible, and try to stay
away from those where the undertypes have been mostly obliterated,
where little remains of one type or the other, or those where one needs
a really good imagination to determine what is what.

I look forward to seeing what you have to offer.

Walter Holt
Coins of Ephesus
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Walter Holt's Old Money - Ancient Coins
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Offline OldMoney

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 01:55:34 pm »
Here is another one that really grabs me.

Sicily, Selinus c.515-470 BC Silver Stater
Obv: Selinon leaf,
Rev: Σ-[E]-[Λ]-I; in the corners of an incuse square containing a small selinon leaf.
cf. C. Arnold-Biucchi, Florilegium Westermark, p.17, no.12; SNG ANS 685.
ex: F&S 15/29 (2008)

This piece has been overstruck on an earlier stater of Corinth described as:
Corinthia, Corinth c.550-500 BC Silver Stater
Obv: Pegasos flying left,
Rev: Quadripartite incuse with swastika-like pattern.
Pegasi 34; BCD Corinth 3.

One may be able to see the Pegasus' wing and hind-quarters partially visible on the
obverse (rotated about 90°), underneath the leaf, and a section of the swastika-like
incuse punch visible on the reverse, beneath the later punch.

There is some overlap in the ranges of dates of issue, but the distance between the
two cities is significant and highly noteworthy. Fascinating!

Walter Holt
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Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2017, 03:23:16 pm »
Hi OM,

I have a blatant example from Bruttium, Rhegium (scroll down, last coin):

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/meepzorp/gi_brut_rheg_pt02.htm

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2017, 03:26:30 pm »
Hi OM,

I also have this Bruttium, Locroi Epizephyrioi example (first coin):

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/meepzorp/gi_brut_locroi_pt01.htm

Meepzorp

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2017, 03:30:47 pm »
Hi OM,

I also have this Roman Republic example (first coin):

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/meepzorp/rr_pt03.htm

However, this example isn't as blatant as the 2 above.

Meepzorp

Offline cmcdon0923

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2017, 03:57:30 pm »
Not to steal his thunder, but the Byzantine overstrike with an approximate 800 year span between strikes that you refer to is, I believe, this coin posted in another topic by DOUGSMIT....


I have just started playing with making videos of coins.  Only some types will benefit in any way from the idea but I particularly like the overstrike below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwk6XlO56dQ

Offline Nemonater

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2017, 06:59:49 pm »
Welllllll, dramatic, extraordinary and outstanding are rather big words for the coin I will post. 

I do think it qualifies as super cool.   I'm not sure if this was intentionally lined up so perfectly but it sure seems so!
Any information on this coin type would be greatly appreciated.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-138432

Anonymous Æ Triens Overstruck on Akarnanian Federal Coinage Ex RBW
Anonymous Æ Triens, 211-208 B.C. 5.38g, 24mm.
O: Helmeted head of Minerva right; four pellets above
R: Prow right
Overstruck on Akarnanian Federal Coinage (Akarnanian Confederacy) of Oiniadai.
O: Zeus
R: Head of river-god Acheloüs
- Crawford 95a From the RBW Collection

Enjoy,
Nemo

Offline Aarmale

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2017, 08:17:28 pm »
I'd prefer to keep this thread as narrow as possible, so as one example I
would like to mention the following item that readily came to mind:
A Judaean Zuz, struck during the Bar Kochba war, that was struck over a
Denarius of Vespasian showing the Judaea Capta reverse.
(unfortunately I don't have an image of one of these [can you assist?]).

Here's one.
Gallery: http://tinyurl.com/aarmale
היינו דאמרי אינשי: טבא חדא פילפלתא חריפתא ממלי צנא קרי

Offline Akropolis

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2017, 08:57:21 pm »
And one more. Suethes overstruck on an Alex III
PeteB

Offline OldMoney

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2017, 11:59:07 pm »
Thanks for the excellent contributions so far. Some great pieces there.

Can I ask everyone to please p0ost the image within the post, rather
than do the pseudo-click-bait type of click-this-link thing.

I'd prefer to see the coin/details here ib this post, rather than have to
search some other post or page to try to find whatever it is someone is
referring to. Seems more sensible to me (IMHO).

Please also add the obverse/reverse, weight/dimension details as well.

I hope you don't think this is asking too much.

All the best,

Walter
Coins of Ephesus
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Offline n.igma

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2017, 12:39:00 am »
Punic bronze issues are a fertile hunting ground for dramatic overstrikes. Here's one of Sardinian origin over struck on an earlier issue of Carthage featuring Tanit/Horsehead. In the overstrike the obverse and reverse of the under type are positioned diametrically opposite that of the overstrike. On the obverse of the overstrike the mane of the horse head under type is clearly visible disposed on the same die axis orientation as the overstrike, while on the reverse of the overstrike the head of Tanit is clearly visible with the under type die axis rotated 90 degrees with respect to that of the overtype.

Vendor description ...
ZEUGITANIA, Carthage. 264-241 BC. AE28 (14.45 gm), Sardinian mint. Head of Tanit left, wearing wreath / Horse standing right. Cf. De Luynes.3837. cf SNG.Cop.216. VF, brown patina, overstruck. Very rare.


It begs an interesting question for which I have no answer .... Why did Punic forces feel compelled to re-strike extant Punic issues?
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline n.igma

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2017, 12:42:13 am »
Another vibrant Punic example ....

CARTHAGE. Circa 350 BC. Æ Unit (17mm, 3.09 g, 7h). Carthage mint. Male head left between two grain ears / Horse galloping right. MAA 19; SNG Copenhagen (Africa) 120. VF, green patina. Overstruck on a “Head of Tanit/Horse before palm” issue (MAA 18). An interesting overstrike. From the Continental Collection.
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Offline n.igma

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2017, 12:45:51 am »
This Punic silver is dramatic .... commingled heads of Tanit and Herakles!

North Africa, Republic of Carthage BI Shekel. Libyan Revolt, circa 241-238 BC. Head of Herakles left, wearing lion's skin headdress / Lion prowling right; 'M' above, ΛIBYΩN in exergue. Carradice & La Niece 1; MAA 53. SNG Copenhagen 239. 7.73g, 26mm, 6h. Overstruck on an earlier Tanit/horse stater. Good Very Fine. Very Rare.
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Offline n.igma

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2017, 12:53:59 am »
A recent one, 1978 over 1977 but two totally different denominations. Dramatic? Yes!  But how did this ever happen with two different denominations involved?

1978-D $1 Eisenhower Dollar -- Overstruck on a 1977-D Dime -- MS66 NGC. A seldom seen double denomination combination. The World War II President and General are united again. Roosevelt's chin, ear, and mouth are apparent on Ike's neck, and the top of Roosevelt's head crosses Ike's ear. On the reverse, ONE from the dime is on the eagle' neck, and a portion of the torch is concealed within the front wing. The dime date and mintmark are easily seen northeast of the 8 in the Ike dollar date. The Ike dollar mintmark is present, as is the top of the 78 in the date. Lustrous and unabraded with light golden toning and a trace of cherry-red from the copper core along the obverse margin.
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Offline peterpil19

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2017, 01:06:37 am »
Hi n.igma,

Thanks for sharing.

Do you have any background as to why or how this coin was overstruck?

Was there a reason?
Or was it simply a mint error? I would have thought that all but impossible for modern coinage. How would a modern coin find itself in the place of a blank die!

Peter

Offline n.igma

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2017, 01:33:38 am »
I am totally ignorant of the why and wherefore behind its striking although there is a proposed partial explanation on another incredible example posted below. However, the explanation is unsatisfactory on a number of counts. How on earth did a struck planchet find its way into a batch of unstuck planchets of a different denomination? I can only suggest deliberate action to do so by a mint employee. Then the coin had to find its way out of the. mint.  Some employee indulging in a bit of error creation for personal financial benefit?

Certainly, it seems the US Mint had some real problems in the late seventies. Here's another stunning example from the following year 1979 over 1978.....

Incredible Double Denomination Anthony Dollar Error
Overstruck on a Jefferson NickelBelieved Unique
1979-P Anthony Dollar--Overstruck on a 1978 Jefferson Nickel--MS-67 (NGC).
A fascinating and exceedingly rare double denomination error. The smaller nickel planchet took only part of the Anthony dollar design, the borders and upwards of half of the peripheral devices off the flan. Enough of the date is present to readily confirm the 1979 attribution, and the P mintmark is clear. Also clear is the undertype, much of Monticello discernible over Anthony's portrait, while on the reverse a partially outlined Jefferson portrait from the nickel is evident. Closer inspection reveals only the bottom loop of the digit 8 in the date of the nickel, just below the letter E in AMERICA in the Anthony dollar design. Both sides are brilliant with a bright, satiny, virtually pristine appearance.This major Mint error was created when a struck 1978 Jefferson nickel accidentally found its way into a bin of dollar planchets and was struck again by the Anthony dies. Double denomination errors in the Anthony dollar series are very rare, we are aware of just two specimens with Washington quarter undertypes, a 1999-P overstruck on a Georgia State quarter, a 1979-D overstruck on a 1978-D Roosevelt dime, a 1979-P overstruck on a Lincoln cent, and the present example. We believe that this coin is unique for a double denomination Anthony dollar involving a Jefferson nickel. Highly significant, and worthy of inclusion in the finest error collection.
From Heritage's FUN Signature Coin Auction of January 2014, lot 6297.
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Offline cmcdon0923

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2017, 11:55:17 am »
For double denomination errors such as those two, the explanation I have most often heard is essentially as n.igma describes it.

The dime was struck in 1977, and when struck was ejected by the press into a huge hopper along with thousands of it's kin to be taken for counting, bagging, etc..  But this specimen somehow became stuck in the hopper, probably wedged into a corner from where it did not budge.  

Fast forward to 1978, and that very same hopper was now used to load unstruck Ike dollar planchets into the presses.  And somehow the previously struck dime came loose and was fed into the press for the Ike dollar, and voila....you now have the coin pictured above.

And the same scenario explains the 1979 Anthony dollar overstruck on the 1978 Jefferson nickel.

The scenarios only works for a smaller planchet being overstruck by a denomination whose planchets are larger.  Either size silver dollar planchet would not be able to be fed into a press set up to strike dimes or nickels due to the dollar planchets being larger.


Craig

Offline OldMoney

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2017, 03:19:07 pm »
One in which I have a particular interest is this one (similar to the one shown above):

Boiotia, Federal Coinage c.220's BC.
Obv: Head of Demeter or Kore (Persephone) three-quarter face right, wearing corn-wreath.
Rev: Poseidon standing left, resting right foot on rock and leaning on trident, to right.
as SNG Cop. 384.

Overstruck on an Æ of Antigonos Gonatas, c.277/6-239 BC.
Obv: Head of Herakles right, wearing lion skin.
Rev: Rider on horseback right, monogram below.
cf. SNG Alpha Bank 990-1000; SNG Cop. 1214-1221.

The profile of Heracles is very clear below Demeter/Kore, as is the rider and horse below
Poseidon on the reverse. This particular Boiotian Federal coinage appears to have been
overstruck almost exclusively on this type of coin of Gonatas. Not every example shows
signs of being overstruck, but any example that does show signs of being overstruck has
these depictions identifiable as the undertype. I'd be very interested to hear if anyone
knows of this coinage being struck on any other type of coin.

If you are interested, do a search for these coins and see the variety of details that can
be seen on the many specimens that have come to market over the years. Fascinating!

Walter
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Offline djmacdo

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2017, 02:01:13 pm »
I would like to draw readers attention to a project of Francois de Callatay with which I am associated: Greek Overstrike Data base.  So far we have over 1800 overstrikes registered.  The database is currently hosted on Pinerest and can be found by just about any search engine.  Here is an essay about the project: http://www.academia.edu/15360804/Greek_Overstrikes_Database_a_short_presentation_Powerpoint_.

And here is little overstrike I recently stumbled upon:




Offline djmacdo

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2017, 02:14:21 pm »
Last post continued:

I recognized the host coin--on the reverse the tail, rear leg, and rump of a horse and a portion of the rider's back are visible as well as the letters  :Greek_Phi: :Greek_Iota: :Greek_Lambda: above: a common bronze of Philip II.  I did not, however, recognize the overstriking coin.  I sent a photo to our friend here, Mark Fox, who immediately recognized it as from an obscure city in Epirus, Kassope, and pointed me to CNG 76, Lot: 350 (12 September 2007), where a much better preserved and then considered unique specimen of this bronze was sold.  That coin is also overstruck and the host coin was there described as a winged horse, though with this specimen to guide the eye it is apparent that what was taken as part of the wing was in fact part of the rider.  That coin too seems struck over a bronze of Philip II.  Mark went on to point out to me that the CNG specimen seems to have traces on the obverse of a laurel wreath on the Apollo head of the host coin, which along with the summary, stick-like execution of the rider suggests the host coin was a late example of the Philip II type bronze struck under Lysimachus before he declared himself king.

Over the next few days I'll try to post a couple of more overstrikes I recently acquired.

I urge people to become familiar with the Greek Overstrike Database and add your specimens too it.  It will prove to be a valuable took for collector and scholar.

Mac

Offline n.igma

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2018, 06:53:22 pm »
This one is pretty dramatic, but I can't identify the under type.  Any thoughts?


Vendor's Description:

Cyprus, Kition AR Stater. Azbaal, circa 449-425 BC. Herakles in fighting stance to right, wearing lion skin upon his back and tied around neck, holding club overhead in right hand and bow extended before him in left hand; monogram or ankh to right / Lion attacking stag crouching right; L'Z'B'L (in Aramaic) above; all inside dotted border within incuse square. Zapiti & Michaelidou 5-6; Tziambazis 17; BMC 16-8. 10.95g, 25mm, 12h.

Very Fine. Unusually complete for the issue.

From a private English collection.
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Offline n.igma

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2018, 07:09:36 pm »
Another from the same auction ..... I admire the way the compartmentalized incuse square of the Aegina undertype  is still evident on the reverse (enlarge image to see in full glory).

Vendor's description:

Cyprus, Kition AR Stater. Azbaal, circa 449-425 BC. Herakles in fighting stance to right, wearing lion skin upon his back and tied around neck, holding club overhead in right hand and bow extended before him in left hand; monogram or ankh to right / Lion attacking stag crouching right; L'Z'B'L (in Aramaic) above; all inside dotted border within incuse square. Zapiti & Michaelidou 5-6; Tziambazis 17; BMC 16-8. 11.08g, 22mm, 6h.

Good Fine; overstruck on a stater of Aegina. Well detailed obverse for issue.

From a private German collection.
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Offline Jordan Montgomery

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2018, 02:57:25 pm »
Here are a few dramatic Roman Republic overstrikes on bronzes captured from Rome's enemies during the Second Punic War and First Macedonian War. The first is a Crawford 69/6 "corn-ear KA" sextans overstruck on a Hieron II Poseidon/Trident. You can see some of Poseidon's hair on the obverse and the Trident at about 7 o clock on the reverse. These are almost certainly related to the siege of Syracuse and all the booty captured when Syracuse fell.

The second is a Crawford 100/3 "CA" series triens, generally attributed to a mint at Canusium, overstruck on a Zeus/Acheloüs of Oiniadai, Akarnania. These are generally believed to represent the booty captured from the raids of Marcus Valerius Laevinus on the Greek coast during the First Macedonian War.
Gallery of my collection with notes and discussion of Republican history and numismatics

Offline Stkp

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2018, 04:20:42 pm »
Here is an overstrike of a so-called Saracen-head denar struck for Hungary's Louis I (1342-1382) at the Pécs mint ca. 1358-1366. The coin is referenced as Huszár 547 var., Pohl 89-1 var., Unger 432a, var., Réthy II 89A var., Frynas H.25.32 var. (variety due to the star on the reverse).

The obverse reads + mOnETA LODOVICI, and has an image of a Saracen's head facing left. Most of the legend is present. The reverse should read + REGIS ⁎ hVnGARIE, Patriarchal cross with random pellets. The coin is a flip-over overstrike, on which the reverse is struck over an obverse.  A faint image of the under-struck Saracen head is visible, together with the letters +mO from the under-struck obverse legend. The overstruck cross is also visible, together with the letters EGIS * hV from the over-struck reverse legend.

Stkp

Offline n.igma

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2018, 12:28:27 am »
It is really tough to eliminate that incuse design on an overstrike!

Cyprus, Kition AR Stater. Azbaal, circa 449-425 BC. Herakles in fighting stance to right, wearing lion skin upon his back and tied around neck, holding club overhead in right hand and bow extended before him in left hand; monogram or ankh to right / Lion attacking stag crouching right; L'Z'B'L (in Aramaic) above; all inside dotted border within incuse square. Zapiti & Michaelidou 5-6; Tziambazis 17; BMC 16-8. 11.20g, 23mm, 12h.

Overstruck, likely on a stater of Aegina of which the reverse incuse pattern can clearly be discerned.
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Offline Jochen

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2018, 08:08:21 am »

Offline Jochen

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2018, 08:12:29 am »

Offline stevex6

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2018, 06:39:32 pm »

Offline OldMoney

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2018, 11:48:50 am »
Coins of Ephesus
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Walter Holt's Old Money - Ancient Coins
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Offline OldMoney

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2018, 01:34:24 pm »
Coins of Ephesus
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Offline n.igma

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2019, 06:33:09 am »
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2019, 07:35:33 am »

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2019, 05:53:56 pm »

Offline n.igma

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2019, 10:08:05 pm »
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline n.igma

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Re: Dramatic Overstrikes: the Extraordinary, Remarkable and Outstanding!
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2019, 09:24:48 pm »
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

 

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