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Author Topic: Pan and Pantikapaion  (Read 1571 times)

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Offline RL

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Pan and Pantikapaion
« on: June 08, 2017, 08:39:27 am »
I have been eyeing up coins like this one http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/thrace/pantikapaion/Anokhin_110.jpg for a while now after stumbling on the type on ebay. My interest has really just been aesthetic (there's something oddly attractive in the misshapen portraits), and there seem to be a good number of high quality examples out their from relatively reputable sellers.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has any background information about these coins, such as why Pan appears on coins from this Pantikapaion? Is there a connection with the name? Was he it's patron god?

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: Pan and Pantikapaion
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2017, 10:31:40 am »
Hi RL,

Here are my Greek, Thrace, Pantikapaion coins:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/meepzorp/g_thrace_pt03.htm

I don't know much about Greek mythology. I don't have a formal education in the classics. My background is in science and engineering. Maybe a Forum member who is more knowledgeable can answer your questions.

By the way, your link to Wildwinds doesn't work because hot-linking to that site is prohibited. There is a block.

Meepzorp

Offline Enodia

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Re: Pan and Pantikapaion
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2017, 01:13:20 pm »
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has any background information about these coins, such as why Pan appears on coins from this Pantikapaion? Is there a connection with the name? Was he it's patron god?

hi RL,

i don't know if Pan was specifically venerated at Pantikapaion, but often these city 'badges' were simply a punning reference to the city's name, such as the rose on the coins of Rhodos, etc.
perhaps what we have here is no more than that?

and if i can presume to offer a bit of advice, i would avoid eBay as a source for ancient coins, at least until you have a lot more experience. while there are a few reputable dealers who list there, it is a very ripe field for fakers to plant their wares.
caveat emptor.

~ Peter

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Pan and Pantikapaion
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2017, 02:29:19 pm »
Ah, this is one of my hobby horses!  Despite the modern enthusiasm for calling the heads on the coins of Pantacapaeum Pan, the heads are actually the heads of Satyrs.  For a Greek, the name of the city had nothing to do with Pan, but rather the first element was PANTA, something quite different.  Satyrs, however, in Greek mythology were often associated with northern lands and the area of the Bosporos.  Satyrs had wild and grotesque physiognomies, while Pan was often depicted in a more nearly normal (though sometimes somewhat goat-ish) manner and seldom does he have the sorts of ears usual to the satyrs.

People will remain unconvinced and continue to see the heads as Pan, and having been though this argument many times, I am now too tired to indulge in it again at length.

Offline RL

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Re: Pan and Pantikapaion
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2017, 02:56:02 pm »
Quote from: Meepzorp on June 08, 2017, 10:31:40 am
Hi RL,

Here are my Greek, Thrace, Pantikapaion coins:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/meepzorp/g_thrace_pt03.htm

I don't know much about Greek mythology. I don't have a formal education in the classics. My background is in science and engineering. Maybe a Forum member who is more knowledgeable can answer your questions.

By the way, your link to Wildwinds doesn't work because hot-linking to that site is prohibited. There is a block.

Meepzorp

Thanks for sharing them Meepzorp, they are great coins!

Offline RL

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Re: Pan and Pantikapaion
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2017, 03:02:38 pm »
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has any background information about these coins, such as why Pan appears on coins from this Pantikapaion? Is there a connection with the name? Was he it's patron god?

hi RL,

i don't know if Pan was specifically venerated at Pantikapaion, but often these city 'badges' were simply a punning reference to the city's name, such as the rose on the coins of Rhodos, etc.
perhaps what we have here is no more than that?

and if i can presume to offer a bit of advice, i would avoid eBay as a source for ancient coins, at least until you have a lot more experience. while there are a few reputable dealers who list there, it is a very ripe field for fakers to plant their wares.
caveat emptor.

~ Peter


Thanks Peter, the pun is an interesting idea, a lot of these Greek coins do seem to convey a good sense of humor

Also, thanks for the tip re eBay. The reason I joined this forum in the first place was to lurk on the fakes thread and try to learn, it's quite an intimidating aspect of the hobby!

Offline RL

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Re: Pan and Pantikapaion
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2017, 03:30:38 pm »
Ah, this is one of my hobby horses!  Despite the modern enthusiasm for calling the heads on the coins of Pantacapaeum Pan, the heads are actually the heads of Satyrs.  For a Greek, the name of the city had nothing to do with Pan, but rather the first element was PANTA, something quite different.  Satyrs, however, in Greek mythology were often associated with northern lands and the area of the Bosporos.  Satyrs had wild and grotesque physiognomies, while Pan was often depicted in a more nearly normal (though sometimes somewhat goat-ish) manner and seldom does he have the sorts of ears usual to the satyrs.

People will remain unconvinced and continue to see the heads as Pan, and having been though this argument many times, I am now too tired to indulge in it again at length.

Believe it or not I had actually wondered about if it was a satyr as my (limited) knowledge of classical conventions on how they and Pan are depicted was enough to know that there is significant overlap. I wasn't aware of the distinctions though, nor was I aware of the linguistic and mythological context.  The overall weight of your argument is convincing - I'm sure there's an academic article in it if you are inclined!

More generally speaking I often find the identification of deities on particular coins curious - to my untrained eye it isn't always obvious why a coin is described as featuring the head of one god or another as often the portraits seem quite generic! I expect that there is a wealth of historical, mythological, linguistic and pictorial context behind most. Regardless, I find exploring the story behind the coin to be one of the things that makes the hobby interesting.

Offline Jochen

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Re: Pan and Pantikapaion
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2017, 04:43:05 pm »
I have worked on this subject in my book "Münzen und antike Mythologie", available now for €72.- Please, take a look at the article "Some notes on Pan" in the thread  "Coins of mythological interest", Reply #153, https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=25089.150

Best regards
Jochen
 

Offline RL

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Re: Pan and Pantikapaion
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2017, 05:38:25 pm »
Thank you Jochan

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Pan and Pantikapaion
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2017, 07:31:53 pm »
The name Panticapaeum seems to have an Iranian origin, through the Scythian, meaning something like "fish route," for the rich fishing at the straits there.

 

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