Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Tetradrachm of Byzantion - strange shape and weight  (Read 1165 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline daverino

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 543
    • My Gallery:
Tetradrachm of Byzantion - strange shape and weight
« on: May 28, 2017, 02:09:34 pm »
Hi Guys

Recently I got this tetradrachm of Lysimachus which has an unusual lozenge shape and weighs 14.7 grams - at least 2 grams less than typical. I can't see any signs that it has been clipped, shaved or broken and the wear doesn't really account for the weight difference. Perhaps the Romans made it to a different weight standard (Phoenician rather than Attic)?. I have seen Thracian T'drachms (Thasos type) that were made to a much lower weight standard under Roman rule.
)
The devices on this coin are for Mueller 207 and the example  shown at the botton (Thanks Wildwinds) is typical shape and weight.

If anyone knows more about it I would appreciate the info - Thanks, Dave

Offline Molinari

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4549
  • My defeat, if understood, should be my glory
Re: Tetradrachm of Byzantion - strange shape and weight
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2017, 02:35:08 pm »
The obverse looks totally wrong to me. 

Offline Molinari

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4549
  • My defeat, if understood, should be my glory
Re: Tetradrachm of Byzantion - strange shape and weight
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2017, 02:45:06 pm »
...In the sense that I suspect it is a cast fake.  The wear doesn't look convincing, though late tetradrachms can be weird.

Offline daverino

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 543
    • My Gallery:
Re: Tetradrachm of Byzantion - strange shape and weight
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2017, 02:45:30 pm »
I agree it doesn't look like the typical well-modeled Greek style found on most of these. This is one reason that I think it is a later mintage, You see the same change in style in  Ptolemaic and Syrian  T'drachms which are modeled on the earlier types but date from the later first century BC.

Offline Molinari

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4549
  • My defeat, if understood, should be my glory
Re: Tetradrachm of Byzantion - strange shape and weight
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2017, 02:46:53 pm »
Does the wear look natural in hand?

Offline daverino

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 543
    • My Gallery:
Re: Tetradrachm of Byzantion - strange shape and weight
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2017, 02:53:24 pm »
It certainly looks like a good old coin with natural wear. I can't see any sign of casting. The imprints are sharp as for a struck coin and the flat surface wear is what I would expect. I have seen a few fakes and I don't think this is one - just, as you say, weird.

Offline Arados

  • Comitia Curiata
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1717
Re: Tetradrachm of Byzantion - strange shape and weight
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2017, 05:47:04 am »
I too share the views of earlier comments, also the flan looks uncharacteristically flat for this type but not entirely uncommon. Your coin does appear to have genuine wear but this is not a sign of authenticity. 

Could you take further photos of the coins edge ?

Offline djmacdo

  • Tribunus Plebis 2017
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4483
  • I love this forum!
Re: Tetradrachm of Byzantion - strange shape and weight
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2017, 07:52:30 am »
There seems to be filing on the reverse near the Nike held by Athena--or so it looks from the angled photo above.  Could it be a cast where the seem is not in the middle of the edge but at the edge of the reverse?  Certainly the coin is odd--much too light, the diameter too small, and the edge atypical.  Could this have been cut down fro use in jewelry?

Offline daverino

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 543
    • My Gallery:
Re: Tetradrachm of Byzantion - strange shape and weight
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2017, 09:43:59 am »
Thanks for your interest.

  Here are some more edge views. The last shot is a close-up of the reverse and what looks to me like a small die break above the "E" . I think the coin must have been struck.

AS for the odd shape and weight. I guess it could have been cut down for jewelry but I can't see any definite signs like attachment marks. However the upper edge (top of the head) is smooth while the bottom edge is rougher. Could be the way it was made or possibly filed to make a particular shape. The flan is overall thin compared to most tetradrachms I have seen and this accounts for the light weight.

I might also amend my description of the portrait style from "weird" to "expressionistic". This trend away from the classical is seen in late tetradrachms from various places.

Offline daverino

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 543
    • My Gallery:
Re: Tetradrachm of Byzantion - strange shape and weight
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2017, 09:49:21 am »
And a couple more edge shots

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity