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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: Ottoman coins identification training 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Manzikert
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« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2006, 03:42:34 pm »

Hi Burak, Levon

Hmm, a challenge, and I think I fail on number 2 Grin

1. As Levon said, 100 Kurush from Qustantiniyah, but Mehmed VI (1336-1341/ 1918-1923), the last Sultan

2. I read this as Suleyman bin Selim, so would have gone with Levon's attribution. I see what may be numerals on the reverse, but can't make a sensible date out of them. Where are we going wrong?

3. I would go with Levon's Mardin: This is O 268 in Nakish Osmanli Mangirlari.

Best wishes

Alan
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2006, 04:00:40 pm »

Hi All

Well the first one is correct of course.

Number 2 is tricky. The date is located on the reverse like Alan has pointed out at about 8 o'clock. The last digit is "8". Thats a small hint. The mint is tricky.

Number 3 is almost correct. It is an anonymous AE Mangir. But the mint is not Mardin, nor is it Malatya. But the "mim" is only the 2nd letter as Levon pointed out already.

I hope this will help a little more.

Burak
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Manzikert
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« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2006, 06:19:50 pm »

Hi Burak

I still think the mint on 3 is Mardin: that is what Olcer read, and he shows others where the r comes before the ma, followed by the d and the n above as on this piece, such as O 266, O 270, O 273.

I can't find any Ottoman mint which might read rmadn, or amadn which are the only other ways I see of reading these letters.

Please enlighten me.

Alan
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2006, 06:34:02 pm »

Hi Alan

Your explanation is good. But this coin was actually IDed wrongly by Ölcer. This coin reads Amard. The "Alef" is worn off in this one. Therefore the mint is Amid (Diyarbakir). If you look carefully you can see the traces of "Alef".  Amard/Amird is a Kurdish "corruption" of Amid. This coin is mistaken as Mardin, because firstly of Cüneyt Ölcer's mistake and secondly it was believed that this coin wrote Duribe fi a Mard, but was proven wrongly by Necdet Kabaklarli in 1999 in the Turkish Numismatic Bulletin.

But I must say you are an excellent researcher. You have very wide knowledge.

Best wishes,
Burak
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2006, 06:42:46 pm »

Below you can find another mistake by Cüneyt Ölcer. This was IDed by him as a Karaman Beylik Mangir KRMN128. Years later it was found out that this one is actually an Ottoman Mangir minted in Konya.

Best
Burak
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Manzikert
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« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2006, 05:44:00 pm »

Hi Burak

Thanks for that information: I have annotated KRMN 128 in my copy, and also O 268. Does the same reattribution apply to O 266, O 270 and O 273?

As to no.2, I still can't make it anything other than Suleyman I, and I interpret the numerals as 941 (see attached image), which would agree with his reign (926-974). I know the 94 could be read as 918 (Selim I), but I still read the obverse as Suleiman bin Selim: again, please explain where I am going wrong Embarrassed.

Best wishes

Alan
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« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2006, 07:44:14 pm »

Hi Alan

Yes it is also right for the numbers you have given above. They are all IDed wrongly.

About coin number 2. Of course you are right. One thing about me that you need to know is that I am dsylexic. Of course the date is 948AH with an "acem" '(persian) 4 digit in the 10s. So yes it is Suleyman I and not Selim, I have read the date as 918AH, but I knew it was Suleyman. My brain works in funny ways.

But give a shot about the mint. If you cant get it in 2 days then I will mark it out for you like you have done with the image.

Best wishes,
Burak
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« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2006, 03:46:25 pm »

Hi Burak

I'd forgotten all about this until tonight.

I am pretty certain that the mint is Tabriz.

I know the Ottomans occupied large parts of Persia at one point, but for how long did they hold Tabriz, and which years are known for this mint?

Best wishes

Alan
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2006, 07:05:59 pm »

Hi Alan

and well done my friend.

About Tebriz: The city was taken under Suleyman I and lost during the reign of Mehmet III and retaken by Ahmed III and lost with the next ruler again. See the list below for coins.

The coin you have IDed up there is so far unpublished and worth a couple of bucks. Other mints are below

942AH Do Shahi (thats a silver double dirhem)
undated AV Sultani (Suleyman I)
982AH AV Sultani
982AH AR Dirhem
982AH AR Shahi
1001AH Sultani (Nuri Pere 202 and 208)
1005AH AV Sultani (dated in words as hams wa elf thousand and five)
1115AH AV Sultani
1115AH Abasi
1115AH AR 2 Shahi after the devaluation so 2 Shahi were 8 Para
1115AH AR Shahi (4 Para)
1115AH Mangir, I think this one still is unique

There are more and I have images but unfortunately my hands are tied.


I think after all, since you are so good at this, I must raise the difficulty, by a lot for one coin.

Best wishes,
Burak
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2006, 07:21:26 pm »

Ok, here are the next 3 coins
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Manzikert
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« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2006, 06:45:09 pm »

Hi Burak

I think they are:
1. A slightly underweight (?) half or quarter Hayriye Altin, Mahmud II, yr 21 Qustantinyah. Krause gives this as a half (at 0.86 gm, and listing double, single and half altins), but another reference says only ones, halves and quarters were struck, which would presumably make this a quarter. Which is right?

2. Akche, Cem Sultan, Bursa mint, 886H

3. Nasiri, Tlemcen mint, Suleiman I (?). On this I confidently read the mint on the bottom line of the reverse,  but am less certain of Suleiman's name at the top of the obverse.

Best wishes

Alan
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« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2006, 11:14:10 am »

Hi Alan

Man, you are good. Seems like I will have to make it even more difficult for you.

Lets see if you can get the next one. One of them will be an unpublished coin and even type. Eventhough you will be able to see the date clearly the mint will be a little harder, but you definately have the potential as you have proven it many times before. Try leaveing the easiest one to others please.

The IDs on the three coins were perfect. The first one is a Ceyrek (quarter) Hayriye Altin. The last one reads Tilimasan but it is Tlemsen of course.

So lets see if you can get 2 out of 2 next leaving the easiest one.

Best wishes,
Burak
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2006, 11:55:49 am »

and here we go again
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Manzikert
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« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2006, 04:05:26 pm »

Hi Burak

Well, I think no.2 is an akche of Ahmed I from Egypt (misr).

As you say the date on no.3 makes it a medini of Suleyman I, but I am somewhat guessing at the mint: Cezayir ?

It seems a very ornate type compared to other medini I can find, so I suppose it must be from somewhere special.

Best wishes

Alan
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2006, 04:35:17 pm »

Hi Alan

Almost. No2 is not Ahmed I and not Misr and not an Akce. It is from a later period.
No3 is a medini (2 Akce or Ikilik Akce) of the Suleyman I period, but not Cezayir rather in Anatolia.

No3 is unpublished and a very special piece.

Best wishes,
Burak
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Manzikert
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« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2006, 06:21:49 pm »

Hi Burak

Hmm: I get the sultan, the denomination and mint wrong and you say 'Almost'. I rate that as a total failure on my part Embarrassed

I thought it was very heavy for an akce of Ahmed, but I did find one at 0.72 gm so I thought it could still be that.

I give up: what are they?

Alan
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2006, 07:02:12 pm »

Well Alan

I said almost because it is not Ahmed I but Ahmed III. I know almost all coins minted under Ahmed III are machine struck coins, but this one is a Para that was handstruck.
It has no date was minted in Qstantaniyye under Ahmed III, so this means that his weight standards were devided into 3 branches as he had 3 different kind of Istanbul Para, one being machine struck Qstantaniyye, a machine struck Islambol Para and this one. See www.zeno.ru for all three types.

The last one is an unpublished Ottoman AR Medini Suleyman I Mardin. This type is to commemorate him I guess.

Best wishes,
Burak
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iaculator
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« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2006, 07:22:19 am »

first  Orhan bin Osman and the third Mustafa bin Bayezid..no idea about the second:)
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« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2006, 07:27:18 am »

kardesh yanlis gonderdim, ozurr..Smiley
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2006, 07:49:51 pm »

Thats ok my Kardes

Best wishes,
Burak
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Pere M
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« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2017, 03:19:56 am »

I try to identify unsuccessfully the mint of this Murad II akce
When I bought it it was theoretically from Edirne (Adrana أدرنة) but if you take a look to the coin this does not seem to be the right option.
Serez (سرز) does not seem to fit either
Any idea on the mint?
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