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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: Ottoman coins identification training 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Istinpolin
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« on: May 12, 2005, 06:25:14 pm »

Hi all

I am back and bored and I want to try something here. I would like to upload some images and make you ID these coins. If you have read the Ottoman Coins (A first guide) and the reading help that other members have posted kindly, then you can easily take part in this section of this Forum. It will not be easy but fun. I will upload three images at one. I would like you to find out about the ruler (not always a Sultan, see section on Period of Interregnum), date ('can be tricky dates can be frozen or direct real dates and also regnal years and sometimes there is non at all), mint and denomination. Ok the first one will be easy, the second one will be difficult and the third one will be hard. This is what I will do for every 3 coins I post. I will also provide some little comments. You can also ask me questions. With this I hope I can teach to learn, if you know what I mean, it will also be fun and I hope everybody who takes part will learn something from it.

For futher help you could use www.osmanliparalari.com, which in my opinion is an excellent site. Also try to look up Anatolian coins and Cengiy Babacan Collection. By the way if you go to www.osmanliparalari.com on the left side you will see a list of mints, if you browse through them you can also see how these mints are written in Arabic with Turkish and English translation.

Good luck
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2005, 06:42:49 pm »

OK here they are
1) Is the medium one. The shape of it will find you the mint and denomination easily.
2) Is the very tricky one. You must research some history. Date is not fully visible.
3) Is the easiest one. The date is clear and you can find the ruler and mint very easily if you read the coin carefully. I am sure you can find a place where the arabic letters are shown.
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Manzikert
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« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2005, 07:00:05 pm »

Hi,

I was going to give this a try when it was first posted, but No.1 had me stumped, and gave up.

The other two were easier:
No.2 5 para struck in Baghdad by the governor Sait Pasha, 1231 H (1816 AD), KM 85. To quote Krause, 'This is the only Ottoman coin ever struck with a governor's name. Sait Pasha was beheaded for this infringement of tradition'

No.3 Akche of Mehmed II 848H, Serez mint.

What is no.1 Burak???: I am guessing Morocco area (cf. Marinids etc.,), but I've never seen or heard of Ottoman coins from there. Undecided

Best wishes

Alan
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2005, 07:26:48 pm »

Hi Alan and Lorenzo

I was getting impatient and I think the next ones will be a little easier than these. Except one coin again.

Ok

#1 Ottoman AE Nasri Ahmed III minted in Tunus in (11)19AH The 19 is clearly visible and so is the mint. Well done Alan you got the continent right. Good educated guess.

#2 Is correct. The coin is minted under Sa'id Pasa in Baghdad. The date and denomintation are correct. Sa'id Pasa is actually from Egypt and he ordered the reperation of the Suez Canal and it was completed long after his execution. He got deported from Cairo to Baghdad. Though Krause is wrong. There is also Ali Bey who has minted coins as a governor.

#3 The ruler, date and denomination are correct. However this coin was not minted in Serez but in Bursa.

Well done though. I hope you can figure out the next three.

Burak
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2005, 07:42:32 pm »

Ok here are the next 3.

The first one is copper and should be very easy.
The second one is hard, but you can find it on one of the websites I have mentioned in other posts.
The third image are 3 coins of the same type. Very early Ottoman Coins to give you a hint.

Good luck.

Burak
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2005, 07:50:30 pm »

here they are
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2005, 04:01:55 pm »

So either, I guess, everyone has lost interest or these are too difficult. Well I will give ut 2 more days and then will reveal the answers.
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lv88
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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2005, 05:39:24 pm »

First one seems to me Abdul Mejid, reignal year 17, and maybe Constantinople mint. 10 para.

Levon
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Manzikert
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2005, 04:43:19 pm »

Hi Burak

As with your last three, I got stumped by one of them, and gave up, in this case No.2: I'm sure I saw it in an auction earlier this year, but though I looked through Baldwins and Spinks I couldn't find it.

The first is (as Levon says) Abdul Mejid, 10 para from Constantinople (qustantinye) mint, but year 16 not 17, could be a medium or thin planchet by the date, KM 667.2 or 667.3.

The third coins are akches of Orhan, 724-761 H (1324-1360 AD), without date or mint (I think).

By the way, just today I acquired a specimen of the Sa'id Pasha 5 para for the princely sum of 2 pounds: not a very good specimen, but at that price I'm not complaining too much Grin

Best wishes

Alan
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2005, 05:30:02 pm »

Hi Alan and all

Well the IDs on the 2 coins are totally correct. The coins on the bottom were coins from my collection. They are also often called Nuri Pere 2 as they appear as the 2nd coin in his book on Ottoman coins. The book is outdated but an essential piece for Ottoman Numismatics.

Well the coin that is labelled 3 was sold on ebay by me for 100 dollars. B was sold for 360 dollars which is still a mystery as to why the price went up so high. A is still in my collection but may be offered soon since just this passed summer I bought an even nicer specimen. Trust me it is possible to find better specimens than A.

Well the 2nd coin I posted here was to be honest very difficult, not only because it is unusual but I must also say that the image may have been too small. This coin is actually not a coin but more like a show off piece for presentational purposes. It is a two ½ Zeri-i Mahbub of Mahmud the First struck at Misr. If you scroll down here http://www.osmanliparalari.com/kose_yazilari/unp_sultani/unpublishENG.htm you can find more information.

Alan, about the Said Pasa 5 Kurus. Wow what a catch I must say. Even if the condition is bad it still is awesome since the coin is absolutely rare and a good example for Ottoman revolutionary coinage like Abdul Kader or Ali bey coinage. You must let me know about your sources.

Well I am happy that some friends do show some interest here. I figure that it is very difficult for some friends to ID these coins, but with the right websites and souces as in literature it can all be figured out.

I think I will make the next 3 coins easier.

Best wishes,
Burak
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2005, 03:46:38 pm »

OK Folks

Here are 3 new coins. Lets see if they will be easier.

The first one is the hardest one again. The second one is the easiest one and the third one is the medium one.

Good luck
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yafet_rasnal
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2005, 08:29:40 am »

The second is Mahmud II, mint of Costantinople, 30th year, but i don't know if it's 1 1/2, 3 or 6 kurus Sad
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Manzikert
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2005, 05:58:58 pm »

1.                   Ahmad I, akche, Van mint, 1013 H

2.                   Mahmud II, 6 piastres(?), year 30, Constantinople mint (not sure of the denomination as you don’t give a size or weight, so could also be a 1.5 or 3 piastres)

3.                   Mehmed II, akche, ? mint, dated 848 H (?) (first reign) I just can’t make out the mint on this: though it is quite clear it doesn’t match anything I can see in my references, and my transliteration doesn’t mean anything to me."
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2005, 03:34:36 pm »

Well Alan I have to say you are really good, but still some mistakes.

Number 2 is correct and the denomination is 6 Qurush. Or it is actually called Almishlik or Altilik in Turkish.

Number 1 just came off the post and was almost a goal. The mint is Shirvan, not van. The "sh" is very clear. It is a very very rare coin and the price is somehwere between 3000 and 5000 Euros. Impossible to locate one. This one was actually sold by a friend. Even the image of it is really rare.

Number 3 is also rare but can be found with good research. it is in my collection. It is dated 886AH so it makes it an Akce of Beyazid II. The mint is hard as this is the only coin from this mint. There are not other coins from other Sultans from this mint. Just this akce. The mint is located in the Dardanelles and is Gelibolu (Galipoli). Very popular coin and highly sought after.

Await the next 3

Best wishes,
Burak
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2005, 06:24:27 pm »

Here are the next 3
Good luck
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2005, 04:57:16 am »

Does anyone have a clue yet?

A hint, these are all very early Ottoman Coins. 2 of them are from the Period of Interregnum
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2006, 10:07:27 pm »

Last chance
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yafet_rasnal
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« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2006, 05:05:04 pm »

is 813 the date of the 2nd one?
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2006, 06:09:53 pm »

Hi

Yes it is 813AH.

I would love it if you gave it a shot.

Best wishes,
Burak
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Manzikert
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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2006, 06:34:18 pm »

Hi Burak

I'd forgotten about this until your recent reminder, then I was immersed in a big group of late Roman I'd bought at the end of last month.

My id's

1. Akche, Orhan Ghazi, Bursa, no date

2. Akche, Musa Celebi, 813H, Edirne mint

3. Akche, Mustafa Celebi, 824H Edirne mint

I think I've got them right, not from real knowledge, but rather by an hour or so of deduction, books and websites.

Best wishes

Alan

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Istinpolin
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« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2006, 07:26:49 pm »

Hi Alan

What can I say besides excellent?
Well Done.

Burak
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Istinpolin
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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2006, 07:38:02 pm »

So here are the next 3.
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lv88
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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2006, 08:28:14 pm »

I think first is Mehmed V, 100 kurush, constantinople?
Second is maybe suleyman I, Amid or Misr?
Third  looks like some civic copper. looks more like iranian dough. All I can read is drb on reverse.

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Istinpolin
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« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2006, 10:05:18 am »

The first one is almost right, Levon.

The 2nd one is not Suleyman. The date is visible. The mint is also not Amid nor Misr.

The last one is not Persian but Ottoman.

Try again, before Alan reveals it all.

Burak
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lv88
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« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2006, 10:15:17 am »

Hmm, on the copper, I see m, and mayber a before. My guesses would bee Mardin, Malatya?

Levon
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