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FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board  |  Numismatic and History Discussions  |  Medieval, Islamic and Crusader Coins (Moderators: AlexB, quadrans)  |  Topic: Help ID 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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palves
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« on: May 01, 2017, 11:43:05 am »

Cross posting here following the advice of another user.

Any suggestion? I have no clue...

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=111215.0

Thanks in advance.
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archivum
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2017, 05:49:37 am »

Here are Palves' coin's specs for the interested, 14mm, .93g:
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2017, 06:55:36 am »

Coins with a lion rampant left on one side and a cross the other were issued in Cyprus under Venice (search for instance the term "carzia"), but apparently not with lion rampant right; Levon V of Armenia used the lion rampant right as his symbol, but the legend on your coin is most likely not in Armenian.
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palves
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2017, 12:24:32 pm »

This is the most challenging coin I came across Smiley  I have upload pictures to different forums and still nothing. Last advice was to look into eastern europe.

Thank you for all your help. If I manage to identify, I will let you know the result. for sure! Big thank you!!!
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Vladislav D
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2017, 06:38:10 am »

Italy, Genoa, Republic, 1139-1339 Quartaro Huh
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=90815.0
Regards,
Vlad
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2017, 08:56:19 am »

Of the links on that other Forum page this one does yield some pretty close analogues, though I don't think your coin reads CVNRADVS: http://numismatica-italiana.lamoneta.it/moneta/W-GENQ/3
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Meepzorp
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2017, 09:13:22 am »

Italy, Genoa, Republic, 1139-1339 Quartaro Huh
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=90815.0
Regards,
Vlad

Hi Vlad,

When I first read palves' thread the other day, I thought of that coin. But there are certain things about palves' coin that make me think it isn't Genoa. It may be Genoa, but it may be something else. I'm leaning more toward "something else".

Here is my example of the Genoese coin (scroll down, last coin):

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/meepzorp/mi_genoa_pt01.htm

Meepzorp
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Meepzorp
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2017, 09:18:12 am »

I don't think your coin reads CVNRADVS

Hi arch,

And the obverse doesn't read "IANVA" either.

Meepzorp
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Meepzorp
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2017, 09:23:38 am »

Hi folks,

The obverse (cross side) legend looks like it reads: "VI...I"

It obviously starts with a "V". And that should rule out Genoa.

Meepzorp
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Meepzorp
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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2017, 09:34:19 am »

Coins with a lion rampant left on one side and a cross the other were issued in Cyprus under Venice (search for instance the term "carzia"), but apparently not with lion rampant right; Levon V of Armenia used the lion rampant right as his symbol, but the legend on your coin is most likely not in Armenian.

Hi arch,

Here is my example of a Cyprus coin with a lion left (first coin):

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/meepzorp/c_cyprus_holyl.htm

It looks nothing like palves' coin.

Actually, style-wise, palves' coin does look somewhat like Genoa, but the legends are all wrong.

Meepzorp
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palves
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« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2017, 02:29:56 pm »

I think we are getting closer. The 5th type just before the heading classification.

http://www.mariojan.com/monete/numis_03_83.html
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Meepzorp
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2017, 09:34:23 am »

Hi palves,

I have the MIR (Varesi) Genoa volume. I wanted to look in it yesterday, but I didn't have time. Today, I some some time to look into this mater more thoroughly.

According to Varesi, there are 4 different varieties of this Quartaro issue.

I have MIR 22 (CNI 4/8). This is a common type. The obverse reads "IANVA". The reverse reads "CVNRADVS REX". Griffin right.

There are 3 other types:

MIR 23 (CNI 9/24). This is scarce (NC). The obverse reads "QVARTARO". The reverse reads "CVNRADVS". Griffin right.

MIR 24 (CNI 25/26). This is scarce (NC). It has the same legends as MIR 23, but the griffin faces left, not right.

MIR 25 (CNI 27/32). This is Rare (R1). The obverse reads "QVARTARO". The reverse reads "TOMAINVS". Griffin right.

Varesi added:

"Nota ai Quartari: secondo gli studi di Enrico Janin pubblicati da "La Numismatica" del Marzo 1983, a cui rimando per maggiori ragguagli, i Quartari col Castello sarebbero stati coniati tra la meta del XII Secolo e la meta del XIII Secolo (secondo il CNI verso la fine del XIII Secolo), mentre i Quartari col Grifone tra il 1222 ed il 1339 (sul CNI e indicato, genericamente, prima del 1339)."

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Meepzorp
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2017, 09:44:52 am »

Hi palves,

If you haven't already done so, you may want to try this website:

http://www.numismaticadellostato.it/web/pns/iuno-moneta/biblioteca/corpus

Genoa coins are in the Liguria volume (volume #3).

Meepzorp
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Meepzorp
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2017, 09:54:16 am »

I think we are getting closer. The 5th type just before the heading classification.

http://www.mariojan.com/monete/numis_03_83.html

Hi plaves,

In the website you referred members to, under the 6th type, it lists variations of the legends. One variety reads "VIVEN". That somewhat closely matches the legend on the cross side of your coin. The first 2 letters in the legend of your coin (cross side) look like "VI...".

Meepzorp
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Meepzorp
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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2017, 10:02:25 am »

Quote from: Meepzorp on May 07, 2017, 09:44:52 am
Hi palves,

If you haven't already done so, you may want to try this website:

http://www.numismaticadellostato.it/web/pns/iuno-moneta/biblioteca/corpus

Genoa coins are in the Liguria volume (volume #3).

Meepzorp

Hi palves,

Photos of your coin type are on page 622 (Tav. II).

Meepzorp
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Meepzorp
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2017, 10:10:04 am »

Quote from: Meepzorp on May 07, 2017, 10:02:25 am
Quote from: Meepzorp on May 07, 2017, 09:44:52 am
Hi palves,

If you haven't already done so, you may want to try this website:

http://www.numismaticadellostato.it/web/pns/iuno-moneta/biblioteca/corpus

Genoa coins are in the Liguria volume (volume #3).

Meepzorp

Hi palves,

Photos of your coin type are on page 622 (Tav. II).

Meepzorp

Hi palves,

Regarding text, your coin type is on pages 37-40.

I don't see any exact matches to your legends. However, CNI states that there is some uncertainty regarding some legends. It is also implied that there are other legend types that are not listed.

Meepzorp
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