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Author Topic: WALWET, KUKALIM and...ALYA?  (Read 1309 times)

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Offline Matteo

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WALWET, KUKALIM and...ALYA?
« on: April 02, 2017, 04:53:27 pm »
Hi :)

In his paper "WALWET and KUKALIM, Lydian coin legends, dynastic succession, and the chronology of Mermnad kings", Alexander Dale argues that the two legends WALWET and KUKALIM are linked to the lydian King Alyattes II:

1. WALWET would be the name of the King in lydian;
2. KUKALIM would emphasize his descent from Gyges, the founder of the Mermnad line. Dale writes: "I suggest that all problems of interpretation and chronology would disappear if we assume that the appurtenance suffix -l- in kukalim was performing its other function as a patronymic suffix: I (am) (the son/descendant) of Kukas".

This is only one of the several theories about the meaning of these legends, but i think it could be convincing.

In 2012 (maybe earlier?) a third stater with the legend "ALYA" appears on the market. So, the questions are:

- is this coin authentic?
- If yes, and if ALYA is an abbreviation for "Alyattes", what do "WALWEL and KUKALIM" mean?

In attach the image of the coin with the legend ALYA.

4.71g - 13mm

I hope you are able to undestand my English... :)

Thanks,
Matteo.

Offline djmacdo

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Re: WALWET, KUKALIM and...ALYA?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2017, 09:04:45 am »
Your English is perfect.  The problem of authenticity is probably not resolvable at least until more material appears.  I am certainly not a specialist in this area, but the coin looks good to me--but I remember convincing electrum fakes that have appeared in recent years.  Does the inscription refer to the Lydian king?  Perhaps.  I think we must suspend judgement about the coin.  What do people more aware of similar coins think?

Offline Matteo

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Re: WALWET, KUKALIM and...ALYA?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2017, 02:42:00 pm »
Thanks for your answer djmacdo.

The coin looks good to me too, but I have to admit that I'm not an expert in recognize fake ancient coins...

Offline glebe

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Re: WALWET, KUKALIM and...ALYA?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2017, 05:58:24 pm »
The particular coin shown here first appeared a few years ago - it is unusual in style, but for the moment I assume it to be genuine. The ALYA is presumably a variant of WALWET - perhaps this coin is from a non Lydian mint copying Lydian coins, hence the dots imitating the rough surfaces of many Walwet coins. (A modern forger would I think produce a less stylised copy).

The final T of WALWET often appears as a gamma or lambda like letter on standard coins, but I think we can assume it's meant to be a (Lydian) T.

Ross G.

Offline Matteo

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Re: WALWET, KUKALIM and...ALYA?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2017, 10:01:21 am »
[...] perhaps this coin is from a non Lydian mint copying Lydian coins, hence the dots imitating the rough surfaces of many Walwet coins. (A modern forger would I think produce a less stylised copy) [...].

Interesting theory, thanks Ross!


 

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