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Author Topic: A run of fake provincials  (Read 4213 times)

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Offline sagit

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A run of fake provincials
« on: March 28, 2017, 01:21:43 am »
Here is a run of fake provincials:
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=862244
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=984949
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1160614
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1265212
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1372352
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1541247
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3448828
All the coins are absolutely identical even in small details - edge cracks etc that is impossible. It means that all of them are cast copies of some genuine prototype.
There are die matches on genuine coins for both sides, so a prototype for those cast fakes really exists and this prototype is a genuine coin.

Offline n.igma

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2017, 02:30:31 am »
Well spotted. No doubt about it. All are condemned as far as I am concerned. I'll leave it to others to debate which if any is the host coin - none I think. Interesting that one auction house sold two examples in back to back auctions and nary a comment from the cataloguer/auction house - willful negligence or complicity? Not the first black mark for that auction house - there's a bit of a repeat pattern here! Caveat Emptor!
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Offline Pscipio

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2017, 03:47:08 am »
These have been around for some while, and there is more of them such as these Diadumeniani:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=697754
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2547696


https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1138707
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=984952
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=879950

There probably are more types from this series. They look very convincing in hands and if you are a.) not familiar with provincials and b.) not familiar with the forgery series, you will be easily fooled by them.

Lars
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Offline Canaan

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2017, 04:07:15 am »
And most of them are Famous and reputable auction houses, ok that is weird!!!!!
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Offline Potator II

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 04:53:01 am »
Scary !

But could some of them be one and the same coin through different sales instead of being copies ?
JC

Offline Jochen

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2017, 05:46:47 am »
But could some of them be one and the same coin through different sales instead of being copies ?

That is impossible at least regarding this coin in my collection:
Macrinus, Hristova-Hoeft-Jekov (2017) 8.23.8.5 (plate coin)
This coin I have bought 2008 and it is still in my collection.

Best regards

Offline Canaan

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2017, 06:06:40 am »
Hello Jochen, all the coins in the first post look like your coin with the same breaks exactly, so your coin is the host or one of them? as n.igma explained before?
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Offline Potator II

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 06:07:56 am »
Hi Jochen,

I wrote "some of them" assuming they're not all on the same level.

Would that mean yours might be the host coin  (mold taken prior to your purchase) ?
That would imply those fakers having been into business for a decade or more, hence muc, much more fakes to spot !!

Best
JC

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2017, 07:50:17 am »
I have seen about a half dozen types from this maker. They are very deceptive even in hand.  I learned the examples I had were fake by looking in Coin Archives and finding matches. I submitted fake coin reports. After seeing a few different types, the overall look becomes a little more familiar and they become a little easier to spot. Although many look like they have thick rough patinas, the patina is very thin. It is actually the metal underneath the patina that is rough. When I handle a coin that has the look, I search Coin Archives for matches. Still, these are fakes that anyone might fail to spot on a bad day.

Fake coin reports please.
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Offline mauseus

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2017, 08:35:27 am »
Hi,
Interesting thread, the Deultum Gordian now removed from sale.
Regards,

Mauseus

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2017, 08:40:38 am »
Fake coin reports please.  Discussion here is goodFake coin reports have long term impact.
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Offline antoninus1

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2017, 03:28:06 pm »
I am not sure whether there is a host coin, I mean an ancient host coin.
Could it be that all of these coins are modern?

I bought mine in 2008 at a coin show in Munich from a dealer from the Balkans. A Macrinus and a Diadumenianus, which is identical to one of those which Lars put a link to above.
I think that that´s the year they appeared on the market.

Offline antoninus1

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2017, 03:34:54 pm »
Here the Macrinus.


Offline antoninus1

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2017, 04:36:58 pm »
Incredible how many reputable companies have been fooled by these fakes :o
At least I haven´t to be too ashamed of myself ::)

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2017, 05:40:13 pm »
Hi folks,

This guy (counterfeiter) is really good. They would have fooled me. They all have different, convincing patinas.

The only thing that gives then away is the flan shape and certain flan edge characteristics. But you would have to see several of them in order to make that connection. Many of them are from reputable dealers and date back to 2011.

Meepzorp

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2017, 07:47:29 pm »
Still no fake coin reports?  Nobody has time to do even ONE?
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Online Pekka K

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2017, 04:03:38 am »

Fake report for 2 first groups done.

Pekka K

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2017, 08:55:55 am »
Thanks Pekka K.
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Online Pekka K

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2017, 03:57:30 am »

Remaining fake reports done.

Pekka K

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2017, 08:00:30 am »
Thanks Pekka K.  These are important reports.
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Offline perporius

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2017, 08:31:03 am »
You can also do some search giving as result ONLY fake coins , not for provincial coins but other types ...

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: A run of fake provincials
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2017, 09:00:28 am »
Perporius, I am not sure what you are trying  to tell us.
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