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Author Topic: Roman artifact  (Read 4432 times)

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Offline timka

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Roman artifact
« on: February 28, 2017, 08:58:17 am »
Hi!

This plate was just recently excavated. Would be interesting if someone in the know and fluent in Latin would suggest what this fragment is about. Is it possible to guess to what period/ruler it is related? -  first line reads something like IX D N IMP...

Any ideas will be much appreciated.


Thanks much,

Z   

Offline Satyrus

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2017, 09:18:47 am »
Looks like a roman military diploma.
Line 1: NT? DN IMP M ( ANTONIVS GORDIANVS ... ) - posible from time of Gordian III . Where it was found?

Offline Satyrus

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2017, 11:14:26 am »
Line 2 : (A)N III KAL IAN  - ”year 3,  Januaris  kalendae” . for time to Gordian III this means 1 Jaunary  241 or maybe ( 242  ) .

Offline Satyrus

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2017, 01:21:41 pm »
Line 3:  A SACRARVM LITTER(ARVUM ) - "she answered"
Line 4 CVM INTER CETER(AS)    - ”among other things,”
Line 5 ”(...)VLI MARTINE KAR(...)
Line 6 ”INDVLGEN(TIA)”
Line 7  ?

Offline SC

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    • A Handbook of Late Roman Bronze Coin Types 324-395.
Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2017, 09:43:31 am »
While the writing is like that found on military diplomas the form of the object is odd.

Are there other diplomas that have the rolled/folded edge like this one?  Also their appears to be some form fastener attached.

What are the dimensions, including thickness?

SC
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline timka

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2017, 05:04:14 pm »
Satyrus, thank you for figuring out the dating of this piece! Thanks much for your time!

It was found in Western  Ukraine. Most probably it was a war booty gained by a barbarian around limes, and then brought home to sarmatian land.

Shawn, may it was not rolled...may be it was just bent in order to brake it.  I suppose that barbarian just wanted to transform this piece of bronze into smaller fragments... may be for arrow heads, etc.. until he was bored with it and wasted  it as it is.


  

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2017, 05:12:02 pm »
I've never seen a diploma that looks like this one. 

Offline JamesC11

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2017, 05:35:51 pm »
Could this document reflect some inaugural act of favor by Gordian's bride Tranquillina who appears so prominently on his coins in this region of the Empire?   Good hunting, Jim C.

Offline timka

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2017, 06:14:46 am »
approximate dimensions - 55 mm by 65 mm, and thickness is about 3 mm

Offline SC

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 06:30:20 pm »
By rolled I don't mean the gentle curve.  I mean the top edge of the item where the metal has been folded down (or "rolled") to create a double-thickness layer.  This is not known on diplomas I have seen but is found on things like Roman metal vessels (i.e bowls).  Also 3 mm is too thick for any diploma I have seen.  They seem to measure half this thickness.

I think it is some other inscribed item.

Shawn
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(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline *Alex

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2017, 07:08:17 pm »
Line 3:  A SACRARVM LITTER(ARVUM ) - "she answered"

I do not understand your translation "she answered". Does SACRARVM LITTER(ARVM) not mean something like "Sacred writing" (i.e. Holy writ when used in a Christian context)?
Perhaps this is part of something religious, a plaque or an inscription from a temple?

Regards

Alex

Offline Satyrus

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2017, 01:35:05 pm »
Yes, you are right. This is what happens when you try to do several things at the same time on a phone :( . It could be anything.

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2017, 02:20:01 pm »
A religious plaque seems more likely.  Why the attribution to Gordian III

Offline okidoki

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2017, 04:25:36 pm »
Very nice find, a real want to have

Best

Eric
All the Best,
Eric
There are no strangers, only friends you do not know yet.

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Offline *Alex

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2017, 07:53:47 pm »
A religious plaque seems more likely.  Why the attribution to Gordian III?  

A Roman milestone was discovered in England at Greenwell Ford on the Roman road to Binchester, which bore the inscription D N IMP M ANT GORDIANO PIO FELICI AVG. "Our lord Imperator Marcus Antonius Gordianus Pius Felix Augustus." Which means it dates from A.D.238 - 244.

Perhaps this is what made Satyrus think the inscription on the bronze might allude to Gordian III. But with only the "M" of the emperor's name legible on the bronze that is very flimsy evidence to accurately attribute it to him. It could just as easily be Philip I, Philip II or any other emperor whose first name began with an M.

Alex

Offline djmacdo

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2017, 07:20:51 am »
Definitely not a diploma, and I cannot see sufficient evidence to attribute it to Gordian III or any other particular emperor.  The style of the lettering and vocabulary leads me to think fourth century A.D., but that also is far from certain.

Offline JamesC11

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Re: Roman artifact
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2017, 07:53:31 pm »
In  a Late Empire context the Sacrarum Litterarum may mean nothing more than a connection with the Imperial government--for example a communication from the emperor's secretariat, in the same way that Sacra Moneta means "imperial mint" without religious implications.  Jim C

 

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