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Author Topic: One for the books - a unique numismatic occurrence.  (Read 4779 times)

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Offline Frank M

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Re: One for the books - a unique numismatic occurrence.
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2017, 09:11:37 am »
It's all cattle raids and goat songs

Offline Molinari

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Re: One for the books - a unique numismatic occurrence.
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2017, 09:29:44 am »
On a related note, while we were preparing our book we came across loads of evidence that man-faced bull coins would be thrown into wells and other water sources as an offering to Acheloios, and that this practice stemmed from earlier Bronze Age practices of throwing armor and other metal objects into water sources for the same reason.  See Potamikon, p. 43, note 136 (it's a big one lol).

So the next time you throw a penny into a well, you are really making an offering to Acheloios!

Offline n.igma

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Re: One for the books - a unique numismatic occurrence.
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2017, 04:47:30 pm »
It's all cattle raids and goat songs
:) Undoubtedly dating from a time when life was solitary, poor, nasty brutish and short. From which arose superstition and  polytheism, accompanied by a vast array of ritual and symbolism that is perpetuated today in a monotheistic religious, secular  societal framework. Modern man? Think again!
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline n.igma

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Re: One for the books - a unique numismatic occurrence.
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2017, 06:02:35 pm »
Which brings us full circle to the issuance of small volume token coinage in the name of dead heroes, dead rulers, long gone presidents etc, a practice alive and well in the USA today (e.g.  attached) but we prefer to think of it as commemorative rather than ritual, or symbolic. I guess it comes down to a question of semantics? But certainly it should not be strange to witness such occurrences in the ancient past connected to succession rituals in a world where rulers past were elevated to the status of a god.

Lots more American ritual practice of honoring former leaders in coin here.....

https://catalog.usmint.gov/medals/presidential/?_ga=1.147566130.484932035.1488015398

https://catalog.usmint.gov/coin-programs/presidential-1-coins/?cm_sp=ST3-_-pres_farewell-_-020117#_ga=1.147566130.484932035.1488015398&start=1
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Offline Frank M

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Re: One for the books - a unique numismatic occurrence.
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2017, 07:40:29 pm »
Undoubtedly!


[/quote]
 :) Undoubtedly dating from a time when life was solitary, poor, nasty brutish and short. From which arose superstition and  polytheism, accompanied by a vast array of ritual and symbolism that is perpetuated today in a monotheistic religious, secular  societal framework. Modern man? Think again!
[/quote]

Offline n.igma

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Re: One for the books - a unique numismatic occurrence.
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2017, 04:06:40 pm »
A strange modern ritual is this one .... http://www.coinsweekly.com/en/News/Former-President-Obama-Receives-Bronze-Medals-For-Each-Term-in-Office-/4?&id=4555

A mint run of two medals of which a single copy each .....  

Quote
On January 17, 2017 former President Barack Obama received official bronze medals depicting each of his two terms in office. During a brief ceremony in the Oval Office, Secretary of the Treasury Jack Lew, Deputy Secretary Sarah Bloom Raskin and U.S. Mint Principal Deputy Director Rhett Jeppson presented medals featuring the former president’s portrait on the obverse (heads side) and portions of memorable speeches delivered during his presidency on the reverse side.......

Presidential medals represent a custom of honoring each president of the United States with an official medal for each term in office. Presidents who serve more than one term are traditionally honored with two medals, one highlighting each of their terms. Since the 1960s, with the exception of Ronald Reagan, all presidents who served more than one term have received two medals. Each medal measures three inches in diameter and weighs approximately nine ounces.

 “The medals presented to President Obama ensure that a long-standing tradition of honoring our presidents remains unbroken,” said Jeppson. “Designed, sculpted and struck by the men and women of the U.S. Mint, the medals institutionalize his legacy in a tangible and historical form alongside those leaders who preceded him – from Washington to present.”

.....
Unquote


Pretty 'fanciful' and 'complex', but it resonates with what went on 2,320 years ago in Babylonia!
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Offline Molinari

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Re: One for the books - a unique numismatic occurrence.
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2017, 06:43:18 pm »
I love the connection!  Well spotted 👍

Offline n.igma

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Re: One for the books - a unique numismatic occurrence.
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2017, 09:13:12 pm »
Thanks. 

The words and expression of this US presidential coinage and medal ritual pretty much parallel those used to describe the circumstance of SC 68  in the AJN 27 paper. And I'm sure there was no collusion between the US Mint and the AJN paper author in this.

I have looked for similar occurrences from an earlier period in Greek history and cannot find it before Seleukos I and Ptolemy I But it subsequently became a pattern in the Hellenistic world to strike small volume ritual coins in the name of the predecessor and ancestors.  Understandably these are frequently among the rarest in the Seleukid series.

So I proudly have in my collection the long forgotten ancestor of the modern run of ceremonial presidential medals and coins issued by the US Mint and perhaps the first example ever of this sort of ritual issuance of token coinage connecting the current leader to his predecessors...... SC 68.



All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline n.igma

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Re: One for the books - a unique numismatic occurrence.
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2017, 10:05:09 pm »
Trawling through the ANS PELLA database I came across further proof that the example of SC 68 (Price P167) above and heading the thread is not the result of random chance or random die recycling. The proof is in the form of the drachm imaged below from the Harvard Arts Museum collection ... http://www.harvardartmuseums.org/collections/object/188136

This drachm type is undocumented in Seleucid Coins, Price's catalogue, or the works of Newell (ESM & WSM).

It is the drachm equivalent of SC 68 (Price 167) bearing exactly same mint controls including the left control that was re-cut over the per-existing control of the tetradrachm die used initially to strike the lifetime Philip III issue (Price P160).

The existence of this previously unknown smaller denomination of SC 68 is proof that the mint deliberately struck SC 68 utilizing a recycled Philip III reverse die adapted to use with a re-cut left field control control and in doing so cut and put into use new drachm dies for a smaller denomination equivalent with the identical mint controls.

Clearly SC 68 was no accident coming at the start of the first coinage in the name of Seleukos I Nikator to which it is both mint control (Macedonian Star) and obverse die linked (die A50).
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline Molinari

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Re: One for the books - a unique numismatic occurrence.
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2017, 07:17:52 am »
I'm interested to see if you have convinced Altamura!

Either way, you should definitely send that to Lloyd Taylor.

Offline n.igma

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Re: One for the books - a unique numismatic occurrence.
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2017, 03:37:31 pm »
Either way, you should definitely send that to Lloyd Taylor.

Already done. He was pleased to see this new piece of evidence.

I think this example highlights the value of the growing ANS PELLA database http://numismatics.org/pella/ for numismatic research on the Alexander series.

Still being populated, it is pulling together a large amount of previously inaccessible material held in various institutions in a coherent and easily searchable manner.

When complete it will cover the coinage of the entire Argead dynasty....

Quote
The coinage of the Argeads themselves and that produced in their names has been extensively studied, but to date no comprehensive, easily accessible catalogue of their coinages exists. PELLA is a new research tool designed to fill that gap, cataloguing the individual coin types of the Argead kings from Alexander I (ruled 498–454 BC), the first of the Macedonian kings to strike coins, down to Philip III Arrhidaeus (ruled 323–317 BC), the last of the titular kings to do so. Included as well as are the numerous posthumous civic and successor coinages struck in the names of the kings.  
Unquote

We should be very grateful to the ANS for funding and developing this database. It is a major initiative with the potential to positvely impact numismatic research for years to come.
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

 

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