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Author Topic: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm  (Read 2279 times)

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Offline dougsmit

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Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« on: January 21, 2017, 04:15:02 pm »
This tetradrachm of Julia Domna bothers me.  The reverse is clearly year 20 with Caracalla and Geta shaking hands dating to the time immediately following the death of their father when accord between the two had not completely failed.  The problem I see is that the obverse portrait is the style appropriate for coins a decade earlier.  At Rome, Domna changed her hair style before the death of Septimius.  Emmett illustrates a late hair obverse for Julia under Caracalla.  He also lists all the late coins with the legend IOYΛIA ΔOMNA  CEB MHTEP CTPA but this one is clearly the legend with extra N as listed for late Septimius lifetime coins IOYΛIAN ΔOMNA  CEB MHTEP CTPA.  I regret I do not have a late hair Alexandrian coin to show here so I'll tack on a Rome of the expected hair style.

My attempts to find photos of this type coin or any  LK Domna has not met with success.  When did the portrait change?  When was the last use of the N legend? I would not expect this type to have been used for long as it would seem to be offensive to CaracallaEmmett lists one type for Geta in year 20 (LK) but he was gone by LKA so I assume the LK reading on this coin is correct with nothing additional off flan (always a consideration with these).

I do not own Dattari/Savio or other large collections which I assume would shed light on the question.  Emmett lists 20 different coins of Domna under Caracalla but they don't seem to have been hitting the sales available online lately.  ACSearch shows one LKB with late hair. Was Emmett wrong not to distinguish between the two legends and portraits for LK or is this a mule using an old obverse die while there are late hair coins of the type?
The LKB from ACSearch:



Comments and, especially, images would be appreciated. 


Offline maridvnvm

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2017, 05:03:09 pm »
A real puzzler. I can't find anything that explains any of your issues is Milne or Dattari.
Milne only lists this obverse legend for years 8, 9, 11 and 12.

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2017, 05:06:59 pm »
Doug,

Emmett 2861 cites a tetradrachm like yours from Basel 6, 18 March 1936, lot 1028. According to Emmett the obv. legend omits the N, but maybe he just misread  it. I wouldn't be surprised if your example turns out to be the same coin as in the 1936 catalogue. Unfortunately I don't find that catalogue on Harlan Berk's shelves. I seem to recollect having a copy in my personal library, but it may be packed away in a box so not easily accessible. I will check at home tonight.

IOVΛIAN legend: still on a tetradrachm of Julia in Year 18, Dattari-Savio pl. 217, 9731; and in year 19, Emmett 2741/19, citing Feuardent's di Demetrio catalogue, coin should now be in Athens. So it is not surprising to find IOVΛIAN still in use in Year 20 on your coin.

As to the portrait type: the small low knot was introduced at Rome c. 207 AD, but surprisingly the old large bun remained in use on almost all denarii until mid-215, even occurring on Julia's earliest antoniniani of that year, as on the example below which also omits the crescent below bust, another early sign. So it is not surprising to find the large bun surviving past 207 on provincial coins, as on the Dattari-Savio tetradrachm of Year 18 (209-10 AD) cited above, and now also on your coin of Year 20 (211-12).








Curtis Clay

Offline Pscipio

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2017, 06:44:05 pm »
Doug,

Curtis is right: your coin actually is the coin from Münzhandlung Basel 6, 1028, which featured the Alexandrian Collection of "M. le Docteur H. St. à S.". I don't have the time to scan the image right now - it is late already in Europe - but I thought you'd be happy to learn about the nice pedigree. I'll post a scan tomorrow, if still needed.

Lars
Leu Numismatik
www.leunumismatik.com

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2017, 06:33:11 am »
Thank you.  I was hoping to turn up other LK coins to see what they used in terms of portrait and legend but not expecting more from 'this coin'.  Relatively few of these have full legends but it is hard to believe Emmett saw this one and missed the N which is the most clear letter on the left side. There must be another example.

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2017, 09:19:28 am »
But Emmett specifically cites your coin from the 1936 sale, and calls if "R5", i.e. "unique". To all appearances it is the only known example.

But I see that "R5" could also be "two known":

"A coin assigned a rarity value of 5 would likely be found in only one or two of the published major Alexandrian collections" (Emmett, p. xvii).

Perhaps Keith Emmett will read this thread and inform us whether he knows other specimens of this Year 20 tetradrachm of Domna! In any case he without doubt saw the photo of your coin in the 1936 auction catalogue, but overlooked the N at the end of IOVΛIAN in the obv. legend.
Curtis Clay

Offline iwaniw

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2017, 01:24:15 am »
Doug:

Very likely the obverse die was used in an earlier regnal year during Septimius Severus' reign (regnal years up to year 19). The other known year 20 coin of Domna (Ares standing left, holds Nike, left hand on shield, captive) has the regular Caracalla period portrait of Domna (lacking the "N").

I agree that it likely is the Basel coin. I have 2 copies of that collection but I can not locate them right now. There is also a PDF version out there and Michael Covili's site has the scans of the plates but they are not high enough quality to post here.

Yes, missed the "N". The rarity of these coins makes it difficult at times to get full inscriptions.

I will pass the image to RPC5 and see if there are any other specimens out there-- I doubt there are any others.


Iwaniw

Offline iwaniw

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2017, 10:23:51 am »
Here's the Basel-6-1028 coin.

Iwaniw

Offline Carausius

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2017, 03:31:46 pm »
The Dr. S. referred to in Munzhandlung Basel 6 is Dr. Hans Steger.  A very excellent pedigree for an Alexandrian coin! Congratulations.

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 08:24:01 am »
Thanks to all.  The Basel photo makes it obvious that it is the same coin but I believe there has been some cleaning/smoothing between the two.  It is not always obvious when one is a photo of the coin and one a plaster cast but I can't complain unless I would prefer a Dattari Savio pencil rubbing. 

In truth, I was hoping to turn up images of other coins that have come to light since the century old references or sales older than I am.  I guess not. We never know what does not exist and what is lurking in a collection somehere. 

Another Domna, below, with Dikaiosyne reverse came with the note ex Niggeler (1965-7?). The apparent cleaning of the LK coin makes me wonder if, by chance, I would see anything similar on that one.  That would suggest one of the more active collectors of these over the last 80 years was into polishing things up a bit.  I was told with reference to another coin years ago that this was the case but that story did not come with a name.
 

Offline iwaniw

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2017, 10:49:45 am »
Doug:

RPC5 only has the Basel#6 coin in their database. Is it possible to get permission to use your picture in RPC5? A picture with a white background would be better. You can PM your email.

I have attached a few pictures of Domna that might be of interest. The Dikaiosyne year 22 is ex. Curtis Clay (unpublished, but one listed in Peckitt sale (#349))

Iwaniw

Offline Gert

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2017, 03:41:18 pm »
Where did you access the RPC5 database?
Regards
Gert

Offline iwaniw

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2017, 09:51:07 am »
Gert:

RPC5 is not online. I got my information from the person doing part 5.  The Ashmolean collection should be online.

I have an early draft of RPC6, as well as my own drafts of RPC6 to RPC10.

Iwaniw

Offline Gert

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Re: Julia Domna Alexandria tetradrachm
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2017, 01:49:06 pm »
aha, I figured as much.
Regards
Gert

 

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