Apollonia undertype

[dougsmit]

If anyone recognizes the coin on which this Apollonia 2.53g silver was struck, please tell me.  The reverse left seems to show a distinctive incuse square design portion.  Is the design on obverse upper right undertype or damage (tongs?)?  Is this type otherwise known overstruck on something specific?

Hopefully unrelated question:  Has anyone ever seen a fake of one of these often faked coins overstruck on another type?

[djmacdo]

These are not often overstruck in my limited experience, and then usually over earlier pieces from the same mint.  I cannot immediately make sense of this overstrike, however.  Could it just be a damaged die rather than an overstrike?

[Mark Fox]

Dear Doug, Mac, & Board,

For the possible undertype, Chersonesus in the Thracian Chersonese?  Consider the attached hemidrachms (the last piece of which might be a diobol instead).  The shape of Doug's flan was what made me think of these coins, with the Amatokos type possessing the most irregular shape that I could find.  

After examining the obverse of Doug's coin, I think I can make out the lion's gaping mouth and a few other facial features near 2:00.   If true, then the reverse pattern was seriously struck off center, with one of the "bars" actually representing a squashed symbol.  
  
Hope that at least gives others some ideas.


Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan

[Molinari]

The thick lines on reverse undertype remind me of Aegina, like on this hemidrachm.  But when  was that Appolonia type struck?

[Mark Fox]

Dear Nick and Board,

The "late 5th-4th centuries BC" for the Apollonia drachms and "circa 386-338 BC" for the Chersonesus hemidrachms seem to be common.  So the Aegina turtles would make an excellent undertype candidate, although the Chersonesus lions would probably still work too.     

The reverse pattern of the Aegina hemidrachm you posted is indeed reminiscent of the thick, fragmentary bars we see on Doug's Apollonia drachm, but for the obverse of the latter, I would expect to see more of a flat strike, or some other evidence of the high relief turtle shell.  Then again, the surfaces of Doug's coin has a rather beaten, hammered look to it, as if the minters knew there would be trouble striking the flan if they didn't do some prep work first.  So you may be right.


Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan