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Author Topic: Help with Menorah and old alphabet letters  (Read 2828 times)

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Offline Mike C2

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Help with Menorah and old alphabet letters
« on: January 09, 2017, 03:49:45 am »
Dear Board;
-I would like to know the diffenrenes between Menorah 7 branches and 9 branches
-Meaning of the two letters : :Judean_shin_2:    and    :phoenician_taw_4:or  :Aramaic_samek:? when they figured on old artifact
Thanks for all help

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Help with Menorah and old alphabet letters
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2017, 07:23:51 am »
The Menorah of the temple had seven branches (some say six, the central lamp being on the main stem not a branch).  I don't know about a Menorah with 9 branches.  

I realize it is unrelated to your question but the coin below has a Menorah(?) with five branches. The possible meanings of this Menorah and coin are very interesting, so I thought I would share it here.

Islamic, Ummayads, Bilad as Sham (Palestine), c. 696 - 750 A.D.


The Jewish inhabitants the Arab province of Bilad as Sham (Palestine) got along well with their new Islamic rulers, which may explain the use of a Jewish symbol on the coinage. The earliest examples of the type had seven branches on the menorah, but the number was quickly reduced to five. The obverse design may have been a clever attempt to please both the Jewish and Muslim inhabitants of the city. Upside-down it resembles the dome of a mosque and the five branches may represent the five pillars of Islam.

IS84020. Bronze fals, Walker Arab-Byzantine 605; Album 163; Barag Candlestick type 4; SIC Ashmolean -, gF, Iliya (Jerusalem) mint, weight 2.469g, maximum diameter 14.8mm, die axis 315o, c. 696 - 750 A.D.; obverse Arabic legend: There is no god but Allah alone, five-branched candlestick on tripod base (menorah) and/or temple dome; reverse Arabic inscription in three lines: Muhammad is Allah’s messenger, crescent below; ex Numismatik Naumann e-auction 40, lot 788; rare; SOLD
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Offline Mike C2

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Re: Help with Menorah and old alphabet letters
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 08:11:03 am »
Great Thanks Joe for your very valuable comments.i am posting here Menorah with 9 branches which is very ancient...available on Internet.
The letters posted by me figured on old Menorah with 7 branches[unfortunately i don't have photos to show it...]
thanks for all your comments

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Help with Menorah and old alphabet letters
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2017, 04:54:23 pm »
I've seen a lot of menorot (is that the correct plural?) with nine branches, but I forget the exact significance. Perhaps someone on the board knows.
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Offline Sam

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Re: Help with Menorah and old alphabet letters
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2017, 05:30:20 pm »
According to the Old Testament
Exodus 25  , should be six branches
3 On both side  , with seven Candles
( so there is a main axis in the middle )

I think it is the same in The Torah.
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Offline Aarmale

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Re: Help with Menorah and old alphabet letters
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2017, 10:50:07 pm »
Regular menorot have seven branches; three on each side and one in the middle.

Nine-branched menorot are usually associated with Channukah. Occasionally, ancient drawings of menorot with other than seven branches have been discovered. The usually this is considered to just be a stylistic variant, a mistake or intentional change to avoid depicting the actual menorah.
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Offline Mike C2

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Re: Help with Menorah and old alphabet letters
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2017, 01:47:15 am »
Great Thanks Dear Members for your very valuable help and comments
Last question:What's the meaning of two hebrew?or phoenician?letters above  on item with menorah?
Thanks in advance for all help & comments

Offline L.C.Sulla

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Re: Help with Menorah and old alphabet letters
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2017, 04:46:34 am »
Dear Board;
-I would like to know the diffenrenes between Menorah 7 branches and 9 branches
-Meaning of the two letters : :Judean_shin_2:    and    :phoenician_taw_4:or  :Aramaic_samek:? when they figured on old artifact
Thanks for all help


The 7 branches Menorah was Jewish ritual object that served the ancient Jewish Temple of Jerusalem known as the “2nd Temple” and as religious sources tell: also the “1st Temple” and the Tabernacle. It was a sacred object and supposedly there was one of its kind. It is assumed by some that it was rarely depicted visually due to Judaism’s (back then) attitude towards visual depiction of Man, animals and certain sacred objects. The extremely rare Antigonus II Mattathias coins minted in Jerusalem that depicted the Menorah might represent a desperate situation in which the ruler used this symbol to link his struggle (in the war against the Roman’s) to a religious cause. Apart from that there are very few depictions of the Menorah from pre 70AD found in remains of non public structures. The Menorah description on the Arch of Titus in Rome was accepted as the true description of the last Menorah and was therefore adopted as the coat of arms of the State of Israel. However the Menorah was not in use for religious purposes since 70AD and its picture, and often memory, are used with a nostalgic orientation only (a common urban legend, still heard though not always seriously, tells that the “real” Menorah is stored in the “Vatican vaults” though historical sources hint it was destroyed during the events that followed the end of antiquity).

The so called 9 branch Menorah – called in modern Hebrew (since the 19th century)“HaNukiya” (comes from the holidays name Hanuuka) serves during the holiday as a platform for the 8 candles that represent the “8 days of joy” that are the foundation of this holiday – on each day of the holiday the number of candles that match the days number In the holiday are lit. The 9th candle is not related to the holiday and the original custom and is called in Hebrew “Shamash”  - “Servant”, or “Batman” (military term)  - and its purpose, and “only purpose” as religious custom says – is to lit each of the other 8 candles. So, theoretically, a “Hannukah menorah” might have only 8 candle places, though as it happens with tradition – the “Servant” was adopted as the 9th candle – which must be placed separately from the others. 

Many Hannukah lamps are designed completely different from the “7 branches Menorah” and in fact ultra-religious Jewish families use a devise that looks like an aquarium (wind proof) that is put near a window or at the house entrance for a ground floor structure. The candles inside are lit on a vertical platform with the “Servant” placed at the end of the row. The “Titus arch” design of Menorah used for the 9 branch Hannukah lamp is more of an adoption of its form due to esthetic reasons – used mostly for “public” Hannukah lamps or in secular homes. It’s a result of traditions changing and while accepted by many as the “classic Hannukah lamp design” is a result of modern development of this custom. The whole mixture between these completely separate devices (yes related to the same Temple) somewhat reminds me of the common mistake of calling a modern semi circular open-air concert area – “An Amphitheatre”…       
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Offline Mike C2

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Re: Help with Menorah and old alphabet letters
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2017, 10:58:36 am »
Great Thanks L.C.Sulla for your very valuable comments +++
All the bests

 

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