Egypt MOU

[Carausius]

It's reported that the U.S. Secretary of State signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Egypt yesterday, restricting import of "undocumented" Egyptian cultural property. I've no idea whether coins are covered.  Does anyone have additional information?

[glebe]

The US Cultural MOU's can be found here:

https://eca.state.gov/cultural-heritage-center/cultural-property-protection/bilateral-agreements

The Egypt MOU is not included at this time, but no doubt soon will be.

Ross G.

[Jordan Montgomery]

The full text has finally been posted to the Federal Register: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/12/06/2016-29191/import-restrictions-certain-archaeological-material-from-egypt

The scope seems pretty ridiculous if I read that right. Essentially all coins minted in Egypt in antiquity are affected.

[Molinari]

Except LRBs.  Anything after Diocletian's reform is allowed, apparently.

[Carausius]

Alexandrian LRBs from Diocletion's reform were consistent with the rest of the Imperial series and circulated widely, so it makes sense to exclude them. I suppose the argument for the including the remainder of the coinage is that Egypt was a "closed" monetary system.  But how closed was it?  That argument might have some basis for bronze coinage, but didn't Ptolemaic silver and gold minted in Alexandria and Memphis circulate outside of modern Egypt?

[SC]

Yup.

Here is a link to the seven Ptolemaic coins found in the UK......

https://finds.org.uk/database/search/results/q/ptolemaic

(If the link doesn't work go to the PAS (portable antiquities scheme) site and enter ptolemaic in the general search box.  I am sure a more determined search might reveal a few more under different terms.

Shawn

[v-drome]

A quick check of excavation reports from the Joint Expedition to Caesarea Maritima in the 1970's shows that many early 2nd century small bronze coins from Alexandria were found there, along with coins from all over the eastern part of the empire.  These are roman coins, not "Egyptian", in my opinion, and they were "exported" long before the MOU.

[Ante A]

Is this include Europe? I find Antoninus Pius tetradrachma minted Alexandria. Am I in problem :-)

[Andrew McCabe]

The full text has finally been posted to the Federal Register: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/12/06/2016-29191/import-restrictions-certain-archaeological-material-from-egypt

The scope seems pretty ridiculous if I read that right. Essentially all coins minted in Egypt in antiquity are affected.

The logic however remains consistent with the MOUs on Italy and Greece. Coins minted only for local circulation are included under the MOUs because they can be presumed to be local finds. That covers all Egyptian coins until the Diocletianic reform, and none afterwards. Likewise the denarius coinage of the Roman republic is excluded from the Italy MOU as it circulate everywhere, and similarly Pegasi and Owls and other trade coins are excluded from the Greek MOU. Straightforward approach really, and the ANS has tended to be heavily involved in the discussions leading to the MOUs. I think it's best we just bite the bullet on these MOUs as they are currently being drafted and focus on establishing provenances for what we already have and/or collecting non-local-circulation coinages. In each case these only apply on a going forward basis so anything you've already bought and have a purchase record for is fine, anything bought now or in the future from a published or online dealer in the US is fine (on the reasonable assumption that such dealers complied at their point of purchase) and anything purchased anywhere else where either the seller asserts pre-2017 out-of-Egypt or you find provenance is fine. Having worked under these MOUs for years now, probably 98% of my collection remains MOU-clear for eventual US import under one or other category above and I'm actively working on the 2%, none of which includes pieces really essential to me (i.e. it's more likely that common worn bronzes haven't records). The system can be worked with. Don't panic and remember that a towel is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker (or ancient numismatist) can have.

[jmuona]

I tend to agree with Andrew, but in spite of this, I see a real problem here.
Who decides whether the provenance is acceptable or not and on what grounds? If I have placed a picture of a coin on the Forum Gallery before that date, does it consitute proof for the coin having been out of the region at that date as I am a Finn?
I can see all kinds of problems with this approach.
If a printed picture somewhere is required, most of the Alexandrian coins in collections cannot be proven to be legitimate. The number of tetradrachms is huge and even though I collect only Othos, many of my coins were not illustrated anywhere.
Jyrki Muona