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Author Topic: Should I learn Latin  (Read 4105 times)

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Offline Chris L

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Should I learn Latin
« on: August 17, 2016, 08:13:56 pm »
Hey guys,
     So I recently became interested in Ancient coins, Roman ones in particular. I was just wondering what the general consensus is in regards to understanding Latin and how much it would help me to identify, catalog and appreciate the Hobby that much more. Any tips and references are certainly appreciated from anyone that does know Latin. Thanks!!

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2016, 09:08:45 pm »
If you do your shopping at Forum Ancient Coins, you will find that much of the text in our coin descriptions is blue. If you click on that blue text, which includes many Latin abbreviations in coin legends and inscriptions, and Latin words in coin descriptions, you will see translations, definitions, and other interesting information.
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Offline v-drome

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2016, 09:38:55 pm »
My favorite book of all time was "A Dictionary of Roman Coins" by Seth Stevenson.  It was first published in 1889, when I was a boy of 10.  I read that thing every night for years, and I still find new and interesting information every time I open it today.

Offline orfew

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2016, 10:08:42 pm »
Though there are many great resources out there, I certainly would not want to discourage anyone from learning another language. The benefits are truly incalculable.

Offline James Anderson

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2016, 10:58:35 pm »
I had two years of Latin in high school, enough to fight my way through Gaul with Caesar.
I have found that it has helped me to better understand my own language, English. But actually
learning to read and speak Latin would be a commitment of many years. An old schoolboy saying-

Latin is a dead language,
It killed the ancient Romans,
And now its killing me!

V-drome, are you really 137 years old?

Offline v-drome

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2016, 12:45:01 am »
 ;) Well, sure feels like it some times!  It was always a real thrill when I was able to decipher a coin with that book.  My edition is a reprint from 1964.  A truly great work.  V-drome (jimi)

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2016, 02:16:34 am »
One doesn't need much Latin to collect Roman coins, and understand them adequately. Nor do you need Latin to comprehend the many ancient texts in Latin that help elucidate the coins, since good translations into English are available for almost all of them.

If you are an English speaker, and want to get seriously involved in studying and understanding rather than just collecting Roman coins, I would suggest that you try to pick up not Latin, but the two other modern languages in which, along with English, the majority of modern scholarship on ancient coins and ancient history has been written: German and French. Virtually none of the innumerable German and French books and articles on ancient coins and ancient history have been translated into English; and computer translation programs in my experience tend to produce gibberish rather than comprehensible translations of them!
Curtis Clay

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2016, 06:56:26 am »
I do spend a lot of time trying to understand small bits of German and French text, wishing I was able to just read it and save a lot of time, and knowing that I am not getting all the important facts. Anyone young person with the ambition to become a classical numismatist or an ancient coin dealer would benefit greatly from following Curtis' advice.
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Offline SC

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2016, 02:50:42 pm »
I don't really know Latin - just "numismatists Latin" that allows you to understand some coin legends.  But I do wish I knew more Latin. 

Not for the enjoyment of my coins.  There I agree with Curtis and Joe - if your goal is numismatics then French and German are the languages to study. 

No, I wish I knew Latin for the wider study of history and archaeology.  I would love to read some of the classics in the original.  I am also in awe of the skills of people like Mary Beard who can drawn out such details from Roman gravestones and other inscriptions.   

Shawn
 
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2016, 04:12:21 pm »
You soon pick up the little bits you need for numismatics. If you ever get seriously into ancient history, that's when you'll need Latin, to access documents in the original. Meanwhile, concentrate on relevant modern languages, which is where I fall flat.
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Offline Jochen

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2016, 04:47:46 pm »
I was on a "Humanistisches Gymnasium" in Germany with Great Latinum, Great Graecum an and a bit of Hebraicum. But what I need for my coins are only some words, you can find at Wikipedia, and some declinations you can find there too.

Jochen

Offline Chris L

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2016, 05:45:12 pm »
Thanks for the tips guys!! I'll switch my focus to French or German for the time being. I'm only 23 so I have a lot to learn in the industry and all of the advice I can get is immensely appreciated.

Offline curtislclay

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2016, 07:04:49 pm »
My favorite book of all time was "A Dictionary of Roman Coins" by Seth Stevenson.  It was first published in 1889, when I was a boy of 10.  I read that thing every night for years, and I still find new and interesting information every time I open it today.

Two points that may be of interest, since you are such a fan of Stevenson's Dictionary!

First, though published in 1889 as you say, the greater part of this book, pp. 1-829, was actually not only written, but printed too, before Stevenson's death on 22 Dec. 1853.

Thirty-five years were to elapse before the remainder of the book, pp. 830-929, could be completed by F.W. Madden, then printed, added to the pages already printed before 1853, and finally published in 1889. So most of the book, up to p. 829, reflects the state of knowledge of c. 1850, not of 1889.

Second, one of Stevenson's greater services to the modern collector, who probably cannot read academic Latin, was to provide English translations of many shorter and longer passages in Eckhel's great Doctrina Numorum, his 8-volume  treatise on ancient coins, published in 1792-8 and reprinted in 1828. Whatever his topic, Stevenson always looked up Eckhel's opinion, and often quoted his exact words, translated into English. Without Stevenson, it would be very difficult for most modern collectors to obtain any access at all to Eckhel's wonderful work.

I recommended that the serious student of Roman coins should learn German and French first, but certainly there are many advantages to learning Latin also, not the least of which is to gain access to the many works of numismatic scholarship that were written in Latin up to c. 1800, especially Eckhel's invaluable Doctrina.
Curtis Clay

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2016, 07:42:58 pm »
I agree with the idea of German and French first but would suggest even befor that to become very friendly with the Greek alphabet including a few letters not used by college fraternities and modern Greeks.  This small study will really help with Provincial coins and workshop designations on late Roman Imperials.

The thought struck me that someone out there who teaches Latin and collects coins could write a Numiswiki page entitled 'Latin for Collectors' including examples of the half dozen or so common coins that might benefit from knowing a little grammar or that have long enough legends that are not just chains of abbreviated titles.  The vast majority of legends are abbreviated to the point that the grammar you suffered to learn means little but a relatively small vocabulary list could help.  The big help might be with the exceptions which have something approaching a sentence.   I hated every second of Latin and Greek Grammar I took in school. I was in it for the use it would be in studying the history.  That makes the explanation of subjects like ablative absolute better left to grammar fans.

For example there is a lot to be found in the Temple of Janus reverse of Nero.  I have a page discussing it but do not want to get into nit picking fights with grammar centered folks about my interpretations:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/f42.html


Another good one is the coin I say should be owned by every Latin teacher.  Usually the name of the ruler is given on coins in the nominative case but ocassionally a young or not bragging ruler would be given in genitive or dative.  The good one here is an early issue in the name of Constans whose name is what grammarians call 4th declension.  Genitive "of Constans" is Constantis which appears on the first coin below.  Unfortunately Constans' older brother Constantius in the nominative (second coin below) is only one letter different producing a situation that can trip up a collector unaware of the fourth declension genitive trap.  I'm sure someone who loves the language more than I will be able to find other examples appropriate for inclusion on such a page.  

Below: FL  CONSTANTIS BEA C  "Of Flavius Constans Blessed Caesar"
Below that:  FL IVL CONSTANTIVS NOB C  "Flavius Julius Constantius Noble Caesar"

Offline OldMoney

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Re: Should I learn Latin
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2016, 12:18:54 pm »
Two points that may be of interest, since you are such a fan of Stevenson's Dictionary!

First, though published in 1889 as you say, the greater part of this book, pp. 1-829, was actually not only written, but printed too, before Stevenson's death on 22 Dec. 1853.

Thirty-five years were to elapse before the remainder of the book, pp. 830-929, could be completed by F.W. Madden, then printed, added to the pages already printed before 1853, and finally published in 1889. So most of the book, up to p. 829, reflects the state of knowledge of c. 1850, not of 1889.

Second, one of Stevenson's greater services to the modern collector, who probably cannot read academic Latin, was to provide English translations of many shorter and longer passages in Eckhel's great Doctrina Numorum, his 8-volume  treatise on ancient coins, published in 1792-8 and reprinted in 1828. Whatever his topic, Stevenson always looked up Eckhel's opinion, and often quoted his exact words, translated into English. Without Stevenson, it would be very difficult for most modern collectors to obtain any access at all to Eckhel's wonderful work.

I recommended that the serious student of Roman coins should learn German and French first, but certainly there are many advantages to learning Latin also, not the least of which is to gain access to the many works of numismatic scholarship that were written in Latin up to c. 1800, especially Eckhel's invaluable Doctrina
.

One of the most important posts I have ever read!

Thank you Curtis.

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