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Author Topic: Roman crossbow brooch help needed  (Read 2539 times)

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victor s2

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Roman crossbow brooch help needed
« on: August 16, 2016, 07:31:32 am »
Hello guys,
I have recently acquired two roman crossbow brooches. I suspect that these two brooches may be fake, I really do not like the patina. There are many ways to corrode iron and bronze.. So maybe you could help me to find out the answer. Previous collector told me both brooches were found in Bulgaria and I know myself that there are many fakes being made in that country.
Your comments will be very appreciated.
Best Regards
Victor


Offline okidoki

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Re: Roman crossbow brooch help needed
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2016, 07:40:48 am »
hello Viktor,

dont use links please post them here links get lost in time.

best

eric
All the Best,
Eric
There are no strangers, only friends you do not know yet.

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marrk

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Re: Roman crossbow brooch help needed
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2016, 05:19:41 am »
that come from Bulgaria, does not mean you are fake
Nobody makes you forcibly buy things you do not understand
so here goes after fertilization of the soil

това, че идват от България, не значи, че са фалшиви
никой не те кара да купуваш насила неща които не разбираш
тука така излиза след торене на почвата

victor s2

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Re: Roman crossbow brooch help needed
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2016, 06:45:45 pm »
Hello Kevin.
Thank you very much for your reply and your time. Really appreciate it.
Best Regards
Victor

Offline SC

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Re: Roman crossbow brooch help needed
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2016, 12:45:40 pm »
Your two fibulae appear to be genuine.   However, despite the fact that it looks old and rusty the pin on the small one appears to be a fake added afterwards.  You can see dark staining that looks like glue residue where that pin is attached.  Both fibulae have very poor surface condition.  They were over-cleaned possibly by dropping them in acid.  Dirt as well as original patina were eaten away.  Alternately they had a powdery decaying surface caused by bronze disease (BD).  The bright green on one might still be bronze disease - depends on whether it is soft and powdery or not.

You can read many threads in the coin cleaning section that can help you determine how to clean the BD if you wish.

As for typology don't use Hattat.  It is really nothing but the list of one guy's collection.  You can see lots of details on the forum numiswiki page on crossbow fibula.  If you don't get a hot link from the words crossbow fibula try this link:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=crossbow%20fibula

Yours are: Crossbow Fibulae with Onion Knobs and Long Foot (Keller 3/4), variation with Eyes on Foot

Typology:  Keller 4a; Pröttel 3/4a; Soupault III1

Dates:  according to Prottel: AD 330-420, according to Soupault: AD 320-390

Distribution:  Upper Danube, NE Gaul - but found in some numbers all over the Empire as they were a military type used by soldiers and civil servants.

Notes:  The foot has a centre line with dots or eyes on either side.

Shawn
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

victor s2

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Re: Roman crossbow brooch help needed
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2016, 02:26:04 pm »
Hello Shawn,

Thank you for this useful information! Yes I can see now that glue was definitely used to glue the pin and it is sad someone could have used acid to clean it.

Anyway I hope your message will be useful not only for me but for other forum users as well.

Thank you once again for your help!

Regards

Victor

Paul C2

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Re: Roman crossbow brooch help needed
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2016, 02:30:01 pm »
Interesting brooches. I have never - to the best of my knowledge - seen a fake crossbow brooch, although there is someone selling reproductions on eBay (which do not look very realistic), and someone re-sold one as genuine recently. Are there fakes of this type out there? I wouldn't have thought it'd be worth the hassle, particularly.

Paul C2

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Re: Roman crossbow brooch help needed
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2016, 04:26:01 pm »
Perhaps, but to make them really look authentic, when real artifacts are so plentiful, is probably not easy enough to be worth it for something which sells for $20 or so. I have seen the fake zoomorphic fibulae etc, but I'm not convinced I've seen a fake crossbow one.

 

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