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Author Topic: Raise Your Cups!  (Read 12716 times)

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Offline Enodia

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Raise Your Cups!
« on: March 13, 2016, 06:58:03 pm »
this one will be all about ancient pottery, either actual antiquities or as depicted on coins, but not only cups. so head to your cupboards and dust off all the fine china to post here!

we'll start off by going to Thebes in Boeotia for this hemidrahm featuring a kantharos, a two-handled wine cup. this was one of the first coins i bought after getting back into the hobby from a 15 year hiatus...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-81136

and if you don't own any such coins or vessels i'm sure Joe would be happy to help...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=1660&pos=0&open=1678#Types

~ Peter

ADMIN EDIT: Here is a link to Forum's vessels and cups theme page: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=1660

Offline Molinari

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2016, 07:31:39 pm »
Another kantharos, from Lydia:


LYDIA, Sardes. Circa 133 BC-AD 14. Æ 15mm. Obv: Head of young Herakles right, wearing lion skin. Rev: Kantharos. Johnston 228-9 var.

Offline Carausius

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2016, 07:39:12 pm »
Nick, are you certain that's a kantharos?

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2016, 08:31:46 pm »
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Offline Molinari

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2016, 08:32:44 pm »
Nope, I just copied the description from somewhere when I originally attributed the coin. An amphora maybe?

Offline Carausius

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2016, 09:12:03 pm »
Nope, I just copied the description from somewhere when I originally attributed the coin. An amphora maybe?

A kantharos is a cup. An amphora is a storage vessel. At first, I thought the vessel on your coin was a pouring vessel or jug, but it is missing a spout, so perhaps it is an amphora.

Offline n.igma

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2016, 11:13:12 pm »
A "mystery" kantharos bearing coin ex-Forum, sold with an unknown attribution and subsequently a chequered attribution history over a few years: Uncertain, then Syros (CNG), then Pergamon, then Naxos (HGC), then Lydia possibly Sardes   ..... https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-123031

Lydia, Uncertain Mint, 4th Century BC, Æ 11
Head of Dionysos wreathed with ivy left.
Kantharos, between two letters 8-Æ· (largely off-flan) being F (in Lydian) and S (in Lydian).
Unpublished in the standard references, c.f. CNG 100 (7 Oct. 2015) Lot 1487; Vögtli, Pergamon 524; CNG eAuction 248, lot 119 (Syros).
(11 mm, 1.456 g, 10h).

This coin was acquired with an attribution "unknown". Subsequently, CNG and others attributed the type to the Cycladic islands, either Syros, or Naxos Some years later this was corrected by CNG to an uncertain Lydian mint, possibly Sardes.

CNG Auction 100 note: "In previous sales, this issue has been variously attributed to either Cycladic Naxos or Syros. While both cities struck coins with the same types as on this issue, all of these cities’ bronzes consistently bear the first two letters of their respective ethnic flanking the base of the kantharos. On this issue, however, these Greek letters have been replaced by two Lydian letters, allowing its correct attribution to a mint in Lydia. Sardes is a possibility, as it’s spelling in Lydian was Sfard."

I've posted below an image of the only complete reverse I've come across to show the complete Lydian ethnic.
All historical inquiry is contingent and provisional, and our own prejudices will in due course come under scrutiny by our successors.

Offline Jochen

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2016, 07:33:29 am »
According to Pat Lawrence (slokind) this is a volute krater!

Moesia inferior, Nikopolis ad Istrum, Septimius Severus, AD 193-211
AE 18, 2.73g, 18.28mm, 180°
obv. AV - L - CEVHROC
       laureate head r.
rev. NIKOPOLITWN PROC I
       Volute krater
ref. a) not in AMNG
      b) Varbanov (engl.) 2495
      c) not in Hristova-Hoeft-Jekov (2015):
          rev. No. 8.14.52.4 (same die)
          obv. e.g. No. 8.14.47.17 (same die)
F+, dark green Patina

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Offline Enodia

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2016, 12:26:06 am »
nice piece Nico, and i can see that Pliny is digging it too. it's so hard to find a cat who appreciates classical art! i guess Squeeze was right when they sang "It's cool for cats"   ;)

i was hoping some antiquities might show up here, and since they have i'll add one from my wife's collection. i don't know that anything like this was ever depicted on a coin, but i think the fact that something so fragile has remained intact for so long is pretty amazing in itself. it is quite a lovely piece, but then she had a great eye...  :-*
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-64701

~ Peter

Offline Enodia

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2016, 12:44:48 am »
Mr. Igma that is a very interesting piece with a curious recent history. i never would have thought that the bearded figure was Dionysus though, but the Lydian inscription is fascinating.
very cool!

~ Peter

Offline Jochen

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2016, 02:11:54 pm »
For comparision. Here we have an amphora on the rev.:

Attica, Athens, 110/109 BC
AR - tetradrachm ('New Style'), 16.64g, 33mm
struck under magistrates Zoilos, Euandros and Lysippos
obv. Head of Athena Parthenos, wearing crested Attic helmet, decorated with gryphion, r.
rev. Owl, stg. r. on amphora reclined r.
      in l. and r. field A - QE
      beneath ZOI - LOS / EYA / NDRO / LYSI / PP
      in r. feld grain, beneath a bee
      Amphora inscribed with Gamma (number of month)
      beneath SF
     All within olive wreath
ref. Thompson 715b
EF, slightly toned

Best regards

Offline quadrans

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2016, 02:33:14 pm »
This is mine :

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-104468

079 B.C., L. Papius, Rebublic AR-Denarius Serratus, Crawford 384/1, Griphon leaping right, water-flask, L.PAPI,
avers:- Head of Juno Sospita right; behind, water-flask,
revers: - Griphon leaping right, below water-flask, L.PAPI,
exerg: -/-//L.PAPI, diameter: 18-18,5mm, weight: 3,57g, axis: 6h,
mint: Rome, date: 79 B.C., ref: Crawford 384/1, Sydneham-773, RRC 110, BMCRR 110, Babelon unlisted,


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 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
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Offline PeterD

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2016, 02:50:10 pm »
Graecia Magna: Apulia, 4th century BC. approx. 11.5cm across bowl, 6.5cm high.
Peter, London

Historia: A collection of coins with their historical context https://www.forumancientcoins.com/historia

Offline quadrans

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2016, 02:52:02 pm »
Graecia Magna: Apulia, 4th century BC. approx. 11.5cm across bowl, 6.5cm high.

 Beauty.. +++ :o

 Q.
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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2016, 10:53:01 am »
nice piece Nico, and i can see that Pliny is digging it too. it's so hard to find a cat who appreciates classical art! i guess Squeeze was right when they sang "It's cool for cats"   ;)

i was hoping some antiquities might show up here, and since they have i'll add one from my wife's collection. i don't know that anything like this was ever depicted on a coin, but i think the fact that something so fragile has remained intact for so long is pretty amazing in itself. it is quite a lovely piece, but then she had a great eye...  :-*
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-64701

~ Peter

Thanks for sharing Peter, that is a beautiful piece!



Quote from: quadrans on March 15, 2016, 02:52:02 pm
Graecia Magna: Apulia, 4th century BC. approx. 11.5cm across bowl, 6.5cm high.

 Beauty.. +++ :o

 Q.

I agree this is also a great piece.
PeterD, I'd be curious to see the other side.

bye :)
Nico

Offline PeterD

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2016, 11:56:24 am »

I agree this is also a great piece.
PeterD, I'd be curious to see the other side.

bye :)
Nico

Thanks for compliments. Here is the other side.
Peter, London

Historia: A collection of coins with their historical context https://www.forumancientcoins.com/historia

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2016, 12:25:33 pm »

I agree this is also a great piece.
PeterD, I'd be curious to see the other side.

bye :)
Nico

Thanks for compliments. Here is the other side.

A nice sample. The painted type of the female head wearing radiate kekryphalos, earrings and necklage, with the waves pattern above, was popular in south-eastern Italy in the second half of 4th c. BC.
Here you find a sample stored at Bologna: http://comune.bologna.it/archeologico/sfoglia/47681/offset/0/id/2400/
another here: http://informa.comune.bologna.it/iperbole/media/collections/8/MCA/GRE/G_0401/G_0479_08.jpg
And here, from the same museum, a curious depiction of an androgynous winged figure, showing the same ornaments of the head: http://informa.comune.bologna.it/iperbole/media/collections/8/MCA/GRE/G_0401/G_0484_08.jpg

Bye :)
Nico

Offline Enodia

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2016, 01:47:03 pm »
I share my Tarantine hemiobol (0.26g, 8mm).

For more informations on this type see the recent discussion at this link: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=78345.msg647989#msg647989

Bye :)
Nico


you beat me to it Nico.

here's mine, but with a left handled cup...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-124593

i still need to rewrite the historical notes though.

~ Peter

Offline Enodia

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2016, 03:17:52 pm »
i'm ready for the symposium!

here are three examples of a very common type from Taras, although two of these varieties are a bit scarcer.
the middle one is a plate coin from the Vlasto catalog, the first plate coin i ever acquired. and the last one, while not at all scarce and not really in great condition, was only $14 so how could i resist?
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-124452
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-82069
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-89526

Cheers!
~ Peter

Offline quadrans

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2016, 01:49:49 am »
i'm ready for the symposium!

here are three examples of a very common type from Taras, although two of these varieties are a bit scarcer.
the middle one is a plate coin from the Vlasto catalog, the first plate coin i ever acquired. and the last one, while not at all scarce and not really in great condition, was only $14 so how could i resist?
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-124452
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-82069
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-89526

Cheers!
~ Peter

Ohh ,

 Nice rare set of Cups... +++

 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline Enodia

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2016, 10:53:52 pm »
Quote
... so head to your cupboards and dust off all the fine china to post here!

just to change it up a bit here is another piece from my wife's collection...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-42036

~ Peter

Offline quadrans

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2016, 01:54:40 pm »
Very nice, Peter   ;) :)  +++

 This is one of mine:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-110797

Regards
 Q. :)
All the Best :), Joe
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Offline Enodia

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2016, 02:04:49 pm »
very nice Q, with lovely coloring!

i always wanted to buy my wife one of these 'pinched neck' types to go with her collection.

~ Peter

Offline Enodia

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2016, 02:18:15 pm »
here's another kantharus on a scarce little Tarentine fraction i've had for a few years now...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-115695

~ Peter

Offline okidoki

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2016, 02:22:37 pm »
Very nice Cup indeed
All the Best,
Eric
There are no strangers, only friends you do not know yet.

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Offline Enodia

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2016, 01:32:19 am »

Offline okidoki

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2016, 01:45:29 pm »
All the Best,
Eric
There are no strangers, only friends you do not know yet.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=37270

Offline Jaimelai

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2016, 08:26:10 pm »

Offline quadrans

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2016, 02:34:12 am »
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline quadrans

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2016, 05:34:23 am »
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline Enodia

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2017, 09:55:47 pm »

Offline stevex6

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2017, 07:48:35 am »

Offline quadrans

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2017, 03:30:04 pm »
All the Best,
Eric
There are no strangers, only friends you do not know yet.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=37270

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2017, 07:09:01 pm »
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Offline peterpil19

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2017, 10:48:50 pm »

Offline Enodia

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2017, 07:06:33 pm »

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2017, 07:29:20 pm »

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2018, 01:49:45 pm »

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2018, 01:55:23 pm »

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2018, 02:18:31 pm »

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« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2018, 02:19:55 pm »
All the Best :), Joe
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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2018, 02:55:42 pm »
All the Best,
Eric
There are no strangers, only friends you do not know yet.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/index.php?cat=37270

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2018, 03:03:37 pm »

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2018, 03:09:14 pm »

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2018, 03:18:06 pm »

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2018, 03:23:49 pm »

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« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2018, 03:49:29 pm »

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Re: Raise Your Cups!
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2018, 06:08:27 pm »
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