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Author Topic: EX-NVMIS?  (Read 11882 times)

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Offline carthago

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2016, 02:58:50 pm »
I came back with no matches for any of the 5 coins I submitted.   :-\

Offline Whizb4ng

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2016, 08:31:28 pm »
Quote from: Carausius on February 08, 2016, 10:58:53 am
Nice match, Andrew!

This sort of service can in principle only improve over time. Maybe if I checked on the same coins in two years time I'd get more matches.

This is true if they continue adding to their database, which they must do if they hope to grow their business.  Hopefully, they will also add some U.S. auctions to address your likely Stack's items.  

For what it's worth, I've seen a very similar business model employed quite successfully by genealogy database websites. They sell credits and charge for viewed "hits" on their database searches. Regularly, they send emails to their subscribers saying "We've added x,000 new records to our database. Come search again."   Imagine getting those emails on a regular basis from Ex Numis. It would be like "Old Auction Catalogue Madness" with a commercial, searchable twist.

The e-mail that you get with no match states:

Quote
As our Digital Recognition System learns and improves with time and as our database increases on a daily basis, we might get a positive match later on. In this case, we will contact you.

Presumably this would mean that you would not be required to resubmit the coin as more records are added to the database.

Offline Jochen

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2016, 05:24:13 pm »
Today I have submitted 2 coins: 1st coin where I know the pedigree to test the ability of their program, and a 2nd coin where I'm interested to get a pedigree. Now I get an answer: They have found a pedigree for my 1st coin ( I have 4 different pedigrees!) but it costs 50 credits. Because I have only 15 credits I should buy more credits! But as beginner I have got 25 credits as gift. Why they write I have only 15 credits? Sorry, I think it is a big job to make money (credits)!

Best regards

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2016, 05:29:53 pm »
Today I have submitted 2 coins: 1st coin where I know the pedigree to test the ability of their program, and a 2nd coin where I'm interested to get a pedigree. Now I get an answer: They have found a pedigree for my 1st coin ( I have 4 different pedigrees!) but it costs 50 credits. Because I have only 15 credits I should buy more credits! But as beginner I have got 25 credits as gift. Why they write I have only 15 credits? Sorry, I think it is a big job to make money (credits)!

Best regards

You used 10 credits in submitting two coins. That leaves you with 15 credits (correct!). The 50 credit ask means that they know a pre-1971 provenance for your coin. If you already know your pre-1971 provenance, you could do nothing (your test worked).

Offline Britannicus

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2016, 11:52:17 am »
This sort of service can in principle only improve over time. Maybe if I checked on the same coins in two years time I'd get more matches.

According to the Ex-Numis website, your submissions are kept on file and periodically rechecked as their database grows. If a match if found at a later time, you would be notified. If the company truly intends to follow through on this promise, you shouldn't have to resubmit unmatched coins. Why should you have to pay twice for the same coin? I think the service is priced fairly as it is, but not if you are being asked to pay double on a narrow chance that the right gap in their database has been closed at any given time. There is a term for that: gambling. It would be unethical for this company to expect you to gamble away your money.

The initial fee includes, as it should, that periodic follow up.

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2016, 07:30:51 am »
One of my "No Positive Match" coins - see image below - has been found by me manually. Glendining, 5th March 1970, lot 185. It implies that Glendining sales - a pretty major source - may not yet be in the mix. I do wish I knew what their resource base was, as it could potentially encourage my searches. I'll still likely keep using it -but only once my own resources are tapped out.

My concern isn't whether it's worth 25 fr. / 50 fr. for a provenance after / before 1970. If they find a provenance it's unquestionably worth it, and I'd pay without hesitation. It's whether it's worth many multiples of 5 fr. tries, not knowing how broad their resource base is or whether it includes many resources not already available freely.

Offline Molinari

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2016, 09:37:06 am »
I absolutely agree, Andrew.  They should consider a modest yearly membership that allows for unlimited searches.

Offline paparoupa

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2016, 09:53:27 am »
I absolutely agree, Andrew.  They should consider a modest yearly membership that allows for unlimited searches.

I second that. Otherwise it feels like you're playing the lottery...

Offline Carausius

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2016, 10:21:03 am »
I also agree with Andrew's last post. Again, looking at the genealogy database websites that I'm familiar with, these websites typically give full disclosure of their database contents and will allow the user to select a subset of that database to search. The genealogy sites also update users regularly as the database expands.  The reason for this approach is that many genealogists are doing their own searches of datasets, manually and through other means, and they need to manage their searches so they are not inadvertently searching the same information twice.

Applying this approach to Ex-Nvmis, I would prefer not to pay for "blind searches" of a database that has only been generally described to me. I would like to see Ex Nvmis add a full list of their database: auction houses and years/auction numbers/FPLs covered. I'd also like to see them enable directed searches, so that users could (1) focus on material they don't otherwise have access to, or (2) exclude material they already know about (i.e. known provenance).

Offline Britannicus

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2016, 08:14:21 pm »
I absolutely agree, Andrew.  They should consider a modest yearly membership that allows for unlimited searches.

I second that. Otherwise it feels like you're playing the lottery...

I like the idea of a membership. From the website I don't see how you are able to manually research their database. Andrew, is that image from the Ex-Numis database?

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2016, 09:38:42 pm »
I absolutely agree, Andrew.  They should consider a modest yearly membership that allows for unlimited searches.

I second that. Otherwise it feels like you're playing the lottery...

I like the idea of a membership. From the website I don't see how you are able to manually research their database. Andrew, is that image from the Ex-Numis database?

"Manually" means I used my hands to take a catalogue (Glendinings 5 March 1970) from a shelf in the library in my house, opened it and found the coin myself, completely by accident and with no involvement of ex-nvmis at all.

The images are my photos of my coin. But as I submitted them to ex-nvmis I guess they are in their database too.

Offline Britannicus

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2016, 09:42:50 pm »

"Manually" means I used my hands to take a catalogue from a shelf in the library in my house, opened it and found the coin myself, completely by accident and with no involvement of ex-nvmis at all.

The images are my photos of my coin.
[/quote]

Ah, yes! Well, that's a wonderful discovery. I appreciate that you've shared it with us.   +++

mlkrt

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2016, 09:01:27 pm »
I've submitted photos of four coins - all had old cabinet tone, which made them prime candidates for old auction provenance.
No search has produced any results - which is fair enough. However, it made me think that the pricing model should be reviewed. I have submitted my coins using the free credits provided - If I had to pay $20 for the pleasure of hearing that they couldn't find any information on any of the four coins I'd be pretty disappointed.

Offline Optimo Principi

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2018, 08:21:08 am »
Have joined and sent a test submission of 4 coins that appear to me as fair candidates for a provenance.

If they use an algorithm to search databases of catalogues, I am assuming that means only photographed plate coins will be detected? Obviously in many older sales only a fraction of the lots might be photographed.

Also, can someone clarify the 1971 cut off between old and modern? Aside from changing to Decimal, did something change in the numismatic world in that year?

Offline Pharsalos

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2018, 08:59:48 am »
I'm guessing the 1971 cut off has to do with cultural heritage laws; I think some MOUs allow for export without a permit if provenance can be proven before 1970. Provenance prior to 1970 therefore makes a coin more easily 'tradeable', so presumably more valuable and worth the extra fee. Ex-numis is betting that provenance will be more important in the future (especially for more valuable coins), and I think they're probably right.

Offline JBF

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Re: EX-NVMIS?
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2018, 07:26:00 pm »
What is a credit worth in "real" money, currently? dollar?  swiss franc?  Lilliputian Gross?
Maybe someone has already mentioned that....

Where is ex numis based out of?

 

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