Aluminum foil Severans

[dougsmit]

Years ago I corresponded with a collector who shared some of his coins with me in the form of aluminum foil pressings.  These were made sturdy by filling the backs with glue (Elmers?) and gluing the 20 coins to a cardboard.  I have long lost contact with the collector who was enough older than I that it seems unlikely that he is still active in the hobby.  Still, I have not noted any of these coins in the market (although many of them would sell in venues that I do not frequent).  Does anyone recognize the format of this card and could tell me whose they may have been?  These were made long before everyone had a camera that could shoot coins and foils were one way some of us made copies for record.  Plaster casts are better but that was not something I did in 1970. I still have some foils that were not filled so they were ruined by years of storage in a box.  For example, I sold the Caligula sestertius in 1974 (big mistake) and have no photo.  I wish I had filled them with glue.  Hindsight.

Severan collectors may enjoy seeing some of the coins on that card.  A few of them are not seen every day but I find it interesting that there is not an Alexandria or Emesa in the group.

[bpmurphy]

Interesting. These were popular with large cent collectors also. Somewhere I have a complete set of Sheldon varieties in aluminum. They were made using a converted notary seal press. Some dealers used to actually sell the presses. I'm guessing with cheap digital photography these have fallen out of favor.

Barry murphy

[Andrew McCabe]

Doug really needs (need, as in WE need) to write a book about coin collecting. I've never read a post written by Doug that wasn't at least very interesting, and this is a typical one, probably in the extremely interesting if not the exceptionally interesting and never-before-commented-on category. Whilst I know there's a plethora of not-very-interesting collectors' handbooks on the market, coming in one of two formats, either a run-round-the-Mediterranean with pics of random coins, or a get-rich-via-collectible-coins treatise, there's never been a handbook written that deals with COLLECTING (verb) as distinct from COINS (noun) because no one has Doug's experience and resources - including, today, glue-filled aluminium foil, but also a hundred other examples of the process of collecting and photos thereof.

Doug  ... please?

[Molinari]

Those are really neat.  It never occurred to me that one could use aluminum foil for that purpose.  Seems like it would be easier than a plaster case.  I might just go ahead and try it on some of my coins.

I would certainly buy a book about collecting written by Doug!

[Carausius]

Doug really needs (need, as in WE need) to write a book about coin collecting. I've never read a post written by Doug that wasn't at least very interesting, and this is a typical one, probably in the extremely interesting if not the exceptionally interesting and never-before-commented-on category. Whilst I know there's a plethora of not-very-interesting collectors' handbooks on the market, coming in one of two formats, either a run-round-the-Mediterranean with pics of random coins, or a get-rich-via-collectible-coins treatise, there's never been a handbook written that deals with COLLECTING (verb) as distinct from COINS (noun) because no one has Doug's experience and resources - including, today, glue-filled aluminium foil, but also a hundred other examples of the process of collecting and photos thereof.

Doug  ... please?

I agree. I have collected ancient coins off and on since the late 1970's and I've NEVER heard of foil impressions or glue-filled foil impressions . I find the old practices of collectors quite fascinating and would welcome a book on the subject!

[Andrew McCabe]

I agree. I have collected ancient coins off and on since the late 1970's and I've NEVER heard of foil impressions or glue-filled foil impressions . I find the old practices of collectors quite fascinating and would welcome a book on the subject!

Ideally, also the new practices of collectors! (catalogue madness, sniping, smart-phone photography).

But there's little in collecting practices that's really new. I added a 1741 volume to my library this week, "A Treatise on the Revenue and False Money of the Romans". Fifty pages of the book, in English, is dedicated to "the Manner of distinguishing Antique Medals from Counterfeit ones". Nothing new under the sun.

[curtislclay]

Wasn't the collector Robert Kutcher from like Nebraska?

No one else has ever owned a DI PATRII denarius of Septimius with TR P XII on the obverse!

I think he died about ten years ago and his collection was sold by CNG.

I bid on the DI PATRII denarius, but couldn't acquire it!

[bpmurphy]

Just for fun I decided to find my pressings. It's probably been 20 years since I've opened these boxes. I have 4 double row boxes of these things, half cents and large cents. They were done in various color foils for some reason.

Kept in these plastic 2x2's they don't bend and stay nice and flat.

I apologize for the crappy image, I just threw these on an old scanner real quick.

1797 is an NC 8
1794 is an NC 9

Half cents are a 1803 C4, and the 04's a C1 and C4.

I always liked these back in the 80's, before digital photos and the internet. It made it easy to have a 3 dimensional impression for comparison with coins. And if well done, they show all the bumps and bruises on the original coin. They were cheap and quick to make and could be given away to others studying the coins. Somewhere I have an old notary press that I converted for this process as well. No idea where that might be.

Barry Murphy

[carthago]

Another interesting way to display coins pre-photography were embossed books.  This was one that was up for sale recently:

Vergnaud-Romagnési, M. C. F. Fac-Simile de Médailles des Familles Romaines Consulaires et
Impériales de la Collection de Mm. de Villevêque Fils; Obtenu Par un Procedé Découvert et Appliqué Pour
la Premiere Fois à une Suite de Médailles. Paris, Roret, Libraire, Rue Hautefeuille Orleans, L’Auteur, Rue
Royale, 1832. Octavo, pp. iv, 18 pages of plates depicting the embossed impressions of between 6 and 14 coins
all on paper, with original tissue guard and an accompanying page of descriptive text.

[Carausius]

I always liked these back in the 80's, before digital photos and the internet. It made it easy to have a 3 dimensional impression for comparison with coins. And if well done, they show all the bumps and bruises on the original coin. They were cheap and quick to make and could be given away to others studying the coins. Somewhere I have an old notary press that I converted for this process as well.

I'm curious how these were made. Based on Barry's post, he had a seal press in which, I presume, the metal seal faces were replaced with some suitable, semi-soft material (maybe a dense foam) that would force the foil into a coin's bumps and crevices. The coin would be placed into the press with one or two pieces of foil and pressed.  Without a seal press did collectors use some foam to press the foil into the coin's surface in a single push, or was it done more like a rubbing? 

[Molinari]

I did this just now using my finger.  Not bad!

[bpmurphy]

It was a notary seal and the normal notary seals were replaced with soft rubber pads. To make a pressing you'd cut  a piece of foil that was about 50% wider then the coin and about 3 times as long. You'd fold the foil in half, place the coin in between and put the entire thing in the notary seal. Squeeze. You would get impressions of both sides of the coin at the same time. Remove and the coin would slide out unharmed.

Barry

[bpmurphy]

Here's another discussion on the same topic....

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/how-to-make-aluminum-foil-coins.124848/#post975356#ixzz0x0WAmDru

Barry

[Andrew McCabe]

When I was a kid and up until my mid 20s I kept all my coin records by pencil rubbings (medium hard pencil, A5 rubbing paper, one coin per sheet with text below the rubbings). It's now quite a regret that I threw them all out when I moved to the ultra-hi-tech polaroid coin imaging system about 1990. They'd have been wonderful to show on Forum (and Doug might have liked a sample for his book..). About 5 years ago when packing my obsolete polaroid system for yet another house move, I resolved to give it to an Oxfam shop. Lucky I forgot, and that system, along with an album of its images from the 1990s, is now a display piece in my library. The rubbings would have looked good alongside.

GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING: I want to make clear that I absolutely do not recommend making pencil rubbings with a hard lead (which I used as it was best for recording edges eg lettering) on anything other than 'collector grade' coins. The thought of repeatedly scraping a sharp pointed object across the surfaces of my EF Imperatorial denarii makes me wince.

[dougsmit]

Thank  you!  I corresponded with Robert Kutcher from Nebraska but had lost the connection between the foils and the name. 

[dougsmit]

While I am very flattered by Andrews suggestion, I have been writing my 'book' for 18 years now with the current version hosted right here on Forvm (Thanks, Joe!)
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/

Over the years I have received a couple notes from people who claimed to have printed out every page (something I have never done) and even received one request for permission to translate it into French.  The first run of Victor Failmezger's book on Late Roman Bronze Coins included a CD with the photo plates (actually enlargements of every coin) which no one seemed to value nor examine to see that my website in its entirety up to that date) was also on that disk.  I have slowed to a crawl adding new pages with only one this year so far. I went from one a week at the start to one a year lately.  The market wants books with catalog numbers and instructions on how to get rich with coins not my ramblings.

New  for 2015:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/wabisabi.html

[timka]

New  for 2015:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/wabisabi.html

Thank you very much for another great writing, Doug! My hobby started from your little stories about Roman coins! It helped me to realize that with little or no budget Roman coins can be still approached. Wabi Sabi is a great methaphora about everything, about another side of beauty - lets look around -  imperfect trees, faces or even indie  music... they always got more character and more stories to tell! ... a worn out and well-travelled roman coin can do this trick too!

THX!

Z.    

[Adrian W]

Reminds of the chocolate coins,you could take pressings of your coins and fill them with chocolate and give them out as gifts

I never thought of doing this either most interesting.

[Meepzorp]

Doug really needs (need, as in WE need) to write a book about coin collecting. I've never read a post written by Doug that wasn't at least very interesting, and this is a typical one, probably in the extremely interesting if not the exceptionally interesting and never-before-commented-on category. Whilst I know there's a plethora of not-very-interesting collectors' handbooks on the market, coming in one of two formats, either a run-round-the-Mediterranean with pics of random coins, or a get-rich-via-collectible-coins treatise, there's never been a handbook written that deals with COLLECTING (verb) as distinct from COINS (noun) because no one has Doug's experience and resources - including, today, glue-filled aluminium foil, but also a hundred other examples of the process of collecting and photos thereof.

Doug  ... please?

Hi folks,

I agree.

I never knew that people did this.

Meepzorp

[curtislclay]

CNG E73, 13 Sept. 2006, lot 943, "From the Robert Kutcher Collection", estimate $2000, made $2500 + 10% = $2750.