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Author Topic: Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?  (Read 4510 times)

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Offline Jochen

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Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« on: May 21, 2004, 07:32:55 pm »
Hi!

Here is my newest acquisition, a Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, RIC 677, rev. Fecunditas holding scepter and infant.
Anyone who knows wether this is a named child and if so, who is the child?

Regards,
Jochen

Offline curtislclay

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2004, 08:10:00 pm »
     The date of this type is certainly early in the reign of Marcus and Verus, so the child could have been Annius Verus, or a youngest daughter whom Kienast names Vibia Aurelia Sabina.  It is very hard, however, to figure out exactly when the recorded children of Marcus and Faustina were born, apart from Commodus and his twin brother on 31 August 161.
     Very nice coin, Jochen!
Curtis Clay

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2004, 08:15:05 pm »
Thank you Curtis! Especially I like the hairdo on the obverse.

Regards,
Jochen

Offline curtislclay

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2004, 08:26:39 pm »
      Actually the naked child means it was a boy, female babies are depicted clothed, so it must be Annius Verus or another male child who may have died quite young.
      Yes, Faustina II's many hairstyles make a fascinating study!  She and Marcus also had about a dozen children, and twenty years ago a German art historian tried to connect these two phenomena, by proposing that each time Faustina bore a child, she changed her hairstyle!  This idea seemed to me so unlikely that I undertook a die study of all the childbirth types during the reign of A. Pius, in order to disprove it!
Curtis Clay

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2004, 08:29:49 pm »
Curtis, have you published this study anywhere?

Jochen

Offline curtislclay

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2004, 09:26:52 pm »
     Unfortunately I never found the time and energy to tie up the loose ends, in particular how to name the children whose births seem to be recorded by the coin types!
     Fittschen in his portrait study, and Birley in his biography of Marcus, give you impressive-looking lists of names and birthdates of Marcus' children, but in my opinion many of these details are quite wrong, and most of the remainder are uncertain!
      We know the first child, a daughter, was born 30 Nov. 147, and the birth of a second child, a boy, is commemorated on coins of 149, Pius TR P XII (the crossed cornucopias type, usually wrongly taken to indicate the birth of male twins rather than simply a second male child).
      However both of these children soon died, and Faustina did not produce another (Lucilla?) until early 152, because in the interval when he was childless (this was the major discovery of my study) MARCUS REFUSED TO ADVANCE HIS TRIBUNICIAN NUMBER BECAUSE HE HAD BEEN GRANTED THAT POWER AS A REWARD FOR PRODUCING HIS FIRST CHILD!  This is why coins of Marcus as TR P III are so common (he bore that title for two full years, not just one!), while those dated TR P IIII are extremely rare and there are none at all dated TR P V!
      The coins commemorate the birth of a third surviving daughter (Fadilla?) in 159 and a fourth (Cornificia?) in 160, then came the twin boys on 31 Aug. 161, finally Annius Verus was born c. 162-3.  Other names of children are known, but it's hard to attach them with certainty to  the deceased daughter and son of 147 and 149 or to establish when else they might have been born and died.
Curtis Clay

Misanthropus

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2004, 03:47:33 am »
What, then, may I ask is the significance of this sestertius which depicts two children in arms and two at the feet?

Misanthropus

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2004, 03:49:35 am »
Here, the reverse....

EmpressCollector

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2004, 07:15:49 am »
The two children standing are thought to represent Faustina III and Lucilla, while the two in her arms are thought to represent Fadilla & Cornificia.

Misanthropus

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2004, 07:50:39 am »
EmpressCollector, since this area seems to be your field of expertise, let me ask you:  Are there any depictions of Faustina Junior with more than four of her children?  I wonder how many depictions there are?  What are the variations?  What is the maximum number of children immortalized?

Harry

EmpressCollector

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2004, 07:57:29 am »
There is the sestertius with this reverse: TEMPOR FELIC S C, Faustina standing left, holding two children, four more at her feet. RIC-1673, Sear-5284 var., Cohen-222.  I do not know the identity of these six children, but this is the maximum number of children shown on a single coin of Faustina Jr. Photo courtesy of Heather Howard.

EmpressCollector

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2004, 08:06:20 am »
By the way, in case anyone is interested, I am nearly finished with an article for the FORVM about fertility, pregnancy and childbirth on Roman coins.  Keep an eye out!

Misanthropus

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2004, 08:09:56 am »
Wow!  "Fecund" is no understatement!  One must admire that woman's philoprogenitiveness....  She reminds me of my newest momma cat.

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2004, 08:25:11 am »
Annual production of children wasn't particularly unusual, and often necessary in the days of high infant mortality; it still is necessary in some parts of the world. My great-great-grandfather was the youngest of 13, and the only surviving boy. That was nothing unusual.
Robert Brenchley

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EmpressCollector

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2004, 08:38:57 am »
Given the high rate of infant and childhood death, it has been calculated that to even maintain a stable population in ancient Rome required a birth rate of over five children per mother, live-born.  (Parkin, T.G. Demography and Roman Society. Baltimore: John Hopkins University Press, 1992.)

Offline featherz

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2004, 09:16:56 am »
I thought I saw my coin posted here! :) I was just about to post it in response to the question at hand, but there it was. :)

Six is the most I have seen as well.

EmpressCollector

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2004, 09:44:17 am »
Heather, I was going to post mine, but the children are easier to see on the photo you sent me for my article.  See?

EmpressCollector

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2004, 10:05:31 am »
We know the first child, a daughter, was born 30 Nov. 147, and the birth of a second child, a boy, is commemorated on coins of 149, Pius TR P XII (the crossed cornucopias type, usually wrongly taken to indicate the birth of male twins rather than simply a second male child).

Curtis, are you referring to this one?
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Photo courtesy HJB.

Offline curtislclay

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2004, 07:02:28 pm »
     Yes, that is the cornucopia coin I am referring to.  The same type also appears on dupondii and aurei.
     There is no mystery at all about the identity of the six children on Heather's sestertius:  it is the same four girls shown on EmeritusOne's sestertius, plus Commodus and his twin brother, who were born on 31 August 161.
Curtis Clay

EmpressCollector

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Re:Faustina jun. FECVNDITAS, child?
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2004, 09:57:13 pm »
By the way, in case anyone is interested, I am nearly finished with an article for the FORVM about fertility, pregnancy and childbirth on Roman coins.  Keep an eye out!

Well everybody, my article is posted.  Go to the FORVM homepage and click articles.

 

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