Is this A. Pius Aureus considered Fleur De Coin?

[Russell W]

http://coins.ha.com/itm/ancients/roman-imperial/ancients-antoninus-pius-ad-138-161-av-aureus-21mm-720-gm-6h-/a/3037-30969.s

Is this coin an example of a Fleur De Coin?  It is cheating because NGC assigned a grade of MS* 5/5, but I am not sure if that qualifies s FDC.

Thanks

[77HK77]

To me my wife is a stunning beauty to others perhaps not.....So it is with ancient coins
They are all one of a kind and the beauty (grade) is in the eye of the beholder

On the less romantic side modern coins are mechanically produced allowing a very clear and well define criteria to judge the extent of change that has occurred to a coin.

Ancients are all hand struck. What can you measure against. What do you consider since the starting point is different for each coin(flan size, flan flaws, flat strike etc) personally I don't often agree with the grading companies but we are both only expressing an opinion based on where we think the coin started

[Russell W]

Thanks, but that doesn't quite answer my question.

[Russell W]

What is your opinion?

[curtislclay]

It's a beautiful coin, but I would hesitate to call it FDC because of the numerous flow lines and other die flaws in the obv. field, and the irregular flan edge which also affects mainly the obverse.

But, as 77HK77 said, where you draw the lines between the different grades is largely a matter of personal opinion.

[77HK77]

My opinion is ...my opinion doesn't matter

The grading companies opinion doesn't matter either.

The criteria to grade ancients is ephemeral. Five experts could potentially give five different grades. Grading must have a rock solid starting point to be universal

The only opinion that counts is the person who shells out the dollars to add the coin to their collection.

They decided

[ancientdave]

My opinion is ...my opinion doesn't matter

The grading companies opinion doesn't matter either.

The criteria to grade ancients is ephemeral. Five experts could potentially give five different grades. Grading must have a rock solid starting point to be universal

The only opinion that counts is the person who shells out the dollars to add the coin to their collection.

They decided

This is one of the things that I really enjoy about this hobby. It is a deeply personal drive that we all share, which is not so concerned with established standards or conventional wisdom. I only really grade my coins in the vaguest of terms. What really matters is how a coin makes me feel, the thrill of a beautiful confluence within me of art & history appreciation, and the drive of a treasure seekers soul. There is no way that this can ever be quantified by something so hemogeneous as a simple grade.


Dave L.

[Vincent]

It's a Heidi Klum....99.99...close but no cigar

[Andrew McCabe]

Yeah not FDC, not by 0.1%, not by 10%, not even close

An FDC coin has to be complete, unworn, in the best style for a given issue, and have no unsightly flaws. I would seriously mark down this coin on two of these criteria
- it has major problems with its surfaces. Worn die, slipped strike. Were it in silver it would be obviously far from perfect
- the reverse style and the drapery and treatment of head doesn't to me seem especially fine style. A bit crude

It is evidently Mint State. But that's a completely different thing. Mint State refers to a state of preservation and manufacture. It doesn't have anything to do with beauty. Fleur de Coin, a Flower of a Coin, has to be a perfectly beautiful example of a given issue (as well as being in perfect physical condition), and not just a well preserved example. It's a very rarely applied compliment.

[benito]

Exagerating  a bit  Fleur de coin  is  like the deflowering of a  virgin ,in this case a virgin die . IMO.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Whatever the label, it's a superb coin.

[Ken Dorney]

Not FDC in my opinion.  While it may appear to have a bit of wear that may just be die wear which takes it out of the category.  Still, a nice coin.  I rarely assign grades to coins as I feel it should be in the eye of the beholder.

[dougsmit]

A few years ago I worked up a modest proposal for grading coins that added a two digit number after the EF that would rate the things that happened to the coin in manufacture and the things that happened after the coin was made.  I called this Conditions of Manufacture and Conditions of Preservation.  This coin strikes me as at least an EF89 but it almost seems to make a case for needing more than ten levels of each 'Condition' so you could call this an EF93-97.  I decided back then that this idea was way too complex to have any chance of being accepted by the masses and dropped the idea of numbering the conditional factors.  I was happy that NGC went in that direction even though they used a five point scale when I felt constrained by ten.  They may have been right since the last thing the hobby needs are people arguing whether their coin is a 66 or a 67.  The matter of leaving the grade to the eye of the beholder has a lot of merit leaving us with the old grading system based on 'coins I like' and coins I don't like.  This is far from the nicest aureus I've seen and better than most seen.  That should be enough.

[PeterD]

"Fleur de coin" is, of course, a French term. The equivalent in English is usually "Mint State". But the two terms are incompatible in my opinion. "Mint State" just means that a coin unworn and uncorroded, virtually as it left the mint. I could be the ugliest coin ever, with worn dies and off-centred. "Fleur de coin" means "Flower of a coin". In other words, not just unworn but the most perfect best of type coin. Not the same thing. Therefore for NGC to call this coin "MS" is (probably) accurate, but to call it FDC is not.

[Joe Sermarini]

I suspect in hand the coin has brilliant sparkling luster, which is not captured in the photograph (and rarely is captured in coin photos). When you are looking at a sparkling lustrous gold beautiful coin in hand, it is easier to overlook small less than perfect aspects. I think it is not FDC, but it certainly is Choice. 

[curtislclay]

A small point: "coin" in French means "die", not "coin". So FDC = "flower of the die".