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Author Topic: the portrait series: why are provincials considered "cheating"?  (Read 1776 times)

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Offline Olybrius-coins

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Hi
I'm trying to collect one coin of every emperor. I don't have any particular denominations in mind when i buy, but generally i collect emperors in bronze and upgrade to silver and then  (when i can afford it) gold.

I never thought twice about collecting great portraits if they happen to be on provincials. But there's a general attitude that portrait series collectors are 'cheating' when they buy provincials? Why is this? Makes no sense to me.

Greg
Greg Heinrich

Offline Diederik

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Re: the portrait series: why are provincials considered "cheating"?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2015, 08:30:50 am »
Makes no sense to me either. If you want Antinous to appear in your gallery, you don't have a choice. I have a very nice Otho tetradrachm of Alexandria with a nice portrait and affordable.
Don't mind others; just create your own collection.

Frans

Offline Olybrius-coins

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Re: the portrait series: why are provincials considered "cheating"?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2015, 09:01:16 am »
Antinous is on my wish-list!
And for most of us, buying a provincial is our only chance of owning a Tranquilina too!
You're right, i'm ignoring this disciminative chauvinistic attitude against provincials!
Greg Heinrich

Offline Akropolis

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Re: the portrait series: why are provincials considered "cheating"?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2015, 09:21:18 am »
"there's a general attitude that portrait series collectors are 'cheating'"

General attitude??? How have you determined this?
PeteB

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: the portrait series: why are provincials considered "cheating"?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2015, 09:27:07 am »
A portrait is a portrait so I don't care if it is provincial or Imperial.  I also have an Otho tet that I would probably never get as a denarius.

It may come from the view that provincial portraits are sometimes less accurate than their Imperial cousins.

Offline Charles S

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Re: the portrait series: why are provincials considered "cheating"?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2015, 10:32:32 am »
I prefer to collect imperial bronzes.  However, a bronze portrait of Otho is only available on provincial issues, so that is what I have.  I do not consider that cheating.
Charles Schotman

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Offline Carausius

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Re: the portrait series: why are provincials considered "cheating"?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2015, 10:35:59 am »
Like most things related to collecting, it's a matter of personal preference and comes down to what you want your collection to represent. The "discrimination" that you describe might be the view of those trying to assemble collections of portraits only from Imperial mints.  If your collection focus is only on the portraits, without regard to the mints, then provincial coins are certainly fair game.

Offline stlnats

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Re: the portrait series: why are provincials considered "cheating"?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2015, 10:59:18 am »
"there's a general attitude that portrait series collectors are 'cheating'"

General attitude??? How have you determined this?
PeteB

+1.  I hadn't encountered this either and certainly wouldn't consider it cheating.  While a secondary interest, my "one per emperor" collection is populated with several large provincials, especially larger module AEs and eastern tets. Large coins with interesting portraits and often something different than the "stock" roman reverse types.  There's numerous ways to collect ancients and, as stated by Carausius, the approach to collecting reflects our individual personality and interests, so a "one size fits all" attitude that you may have encountered seems itself most unreasonable. 

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: the portrait series: why are provincials considered "cheating"?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2015, 11:06:35 am »
It really depends on context. The first ever lifetime portrait of Julius Caesar is on a middle bronze of Lampsacus that dates from 45 BC and is impeccable and realistic, certainly better than most of his lifetime portrait denarii which cost so much. On the other hand there is a common bronze issued in the time of Domitian which features "portraits" of Octavian and Julius Caesar that are, at best, approximately generic male heads. It's coins such as these that give provincials a sometimes bad name. They were just too far away in both time and distance to be remotely authentic effigies. That doesn't tend to happen as often with the official Rome/Lugdunum/wherever coinage. I know many provincials of the late Republic and Augustus which have superbly realistic portraits of men and women of the period but I'm also aware that there are provincial imitative copies of many of these issues in poor style.

So, don't differentiate between Imperial and Provincial coinage but do look out for fine style portraits in either case. And don't omit the related family members or the rare provincial administrators if you can find them.

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: the portrait series: why are provincials considered "cheating"?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2015, 12:43:48 am »
Hi Oly,

Buy whatever you want to buy. Make your own rules!

Most people who collect ancient coins tend to be "different" anyway. They are usually the types of people who don't conform to someone else's arbitrary rules.

Meepzorp

Offline David Atherton

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Re: the portrait series: why are provincials considered "cheating"?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2015, 08:55:05 pm »
Certainly not cheating! The provincial coinage was an integrated part of the overall coinage of the empire. I suppose it depends on whether you prefer an imperial or provincial portrait.

 

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