Ancient counterfeit Pius denarii

[Diederik]

Unofficial coins are not really a hot item among collectors, but specializing in Pius, I find it intriguing to see how these coins were 'assembled'

I have now two specimens with Pietas on the reverse, a type very reminiscent of Pius early years.
The first one reads: ANTONINVS AVG PIVS PP TR P, bare head right. The reverse looks like: PMTR POT COS, Pietas standing left, offering over altar (no flames) and holding box.
The second one: IMP T AEL CAES ANTONINVS, bare head right. The reverse: TRIB POT - COS, Pietas standing left, offering over lighted altar and holding box.

The second coin is easiest to pin down: RIC 452, Strack 412, RSC 1062.
The first is very curious as the obverse text is so far unknown to denarii as is the reverse text (if read properly by me). Though the style is not bad, I assume it to be a real forgery, made outside a mint, whereas the second coin shows so much good detail that it looks deceitfully like an original one and was probably made in an official mint.

Hope you like them too!


Frans

[Charles S]

Hi Frans,

Very interesting coins.  The first one is weird indeed.  As far as I can see from the photos, the legends are like you wrote them.  Repeating TR P from the obverse as TR POT on the reverse is very strange.  I just wonder why a forger would invent fantasy legends, why not just copy existing legends from official issues?

Charles

[Pscipio]

It is common to find fantasy legends or mismatched obverse-reverse combinations among plated coins. The portrait on the second coin is of neat, but still clearly unofficial style, I think.

Lars

[Joe Sermarini]

I don't know of a single example of an official Roman Imperial mint striking a plated denarius. It is possible, perhaps most likely when older coins were over struck. Someone may post one here now to prove me wrong but, I think if they do exist, they are exceedingly rare. I think we should always assume they are from an unofficial mint unless proven official.

[areich]

It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine but you often hear this, even from experienced collectors, without anything to back it up. One in 50 plated coins is close in style to an official coin, ergo official mints produced forgeries. 

[Andrew McCabe]

It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine but you often hear this, even from experienced collectors, without anything to back it up. One in 50 plated coins is close in style to an official coin, ergo official mints produced forgeries. 

It's a much higher proportion than that, but there's a simple explanation that forger's used impressions of real coins to make forgers dies for plated coins. So of course the style is the same. We know that they were not the official dies however, as often the wrongly completed small details that were not clear on the coin they used to impress the die, or sometimes they used worn examples of real coins to make their forgers dies, so fresh-struck examples show the wear patterns or even damage to the coin. All is explained here, with plenty of examples:

http://andrewmccabe.ancients.info/Plated.html

[Pscipio]

It is a higher proportion among republicans forgeries, but the vast majority of imperial forgeries is not of official or nearly official style.

Lars

[David Atherton]

Vespasian's IVDEAEA DEVICTA denarii from Lyon is more often than not found as a fourree. Why this is so I cannot guess, but it is very difficult to find a solid silver example of the type.

[dafnis]

I acquired a few years back an interesting ancient forgery, actually with hybrid obverse from A.Pius and reverse from L.Verus.
[BAD LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

ADMIN: PLEASE NOTE WHEN LINKING TO A GALLERY COIN (OR A FAKE COIN REPORT) YOU CANNOT COPY THE URL FROM THE ADDRESS BAR. THAT IS A TEMPORARY URL GENERATED BY THE DATABASE.  USE THE PERMANENT URL IN THE ITEM INFORMATION BELOW THE PHOTO. IF YOU DO NOT SEE A URL BELOW THE PHOTO, CLICK THE INFORMATION BUTTON (AN I IN A BLUE CIRCLE) TO EXPAND THE ITEM INFORMATION BELOW.

[quadrans]

It is mine example..counterfeit or barbar Pius.., real silver not plated..

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-112788

 Regards
 Q.

[dafnis]

I acquired a few years back an interesting ancient forgery, actually with hybrid obverse from A.Pius and reverse from L.Verus.
[BAD LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

ADMIN: PLEASE NOTE WHEN LINKING TO A GALLERY COIN (OR A FAKE COIN REPORT) YOU CANNOT COPY THE URL FROM THE ADDRESS BAR. THAT IS A TEMPORARY URL GENERATED BY THE DATABASE.  USE THE PERMANENT URL IN THE ITEM INFORMATION BELOW THE PHOTO. IF YOU DO NOT SEE A URL BELOW THE PHOTO, CLICK THE INFORMATION BUTTON (AN I IN A BLUE CIRCLE) TO EXPAND THE ITEM INFORMATION BELOW.

Sorry for my mistake.
Just tried with the info button but does not appear to work. The adjacent button do work well, the "i" does nothing 

[Joe Sermarini]

Scroll down below the photo. Do you see a link? If you do, you do not need the button. If not, click the button and scroll down again. You will then see a link.

[dafnis]

Had forgotten about this one :-)
So here's the link: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-65662