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Author Topic: Roman Coin Find  (Read 2009 times)

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Offline Jakdaw

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Roman Coin Find
« on: April 17, 2015, 06:05:35 am »
Hi all,

Is it possible to ask for help in identifying a coin I found yesterday please? I am sure it is Roman but have no experience in Roman coin identification.

I found it in a field near Stirling in Scotland, yesterday. It is silver and is about the size of a modern penny.

Any help appreciated, thank you.

Offline helveticus

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2015, 06:22:12 am »
Hi Jakdaw,
The coin is a denarius ( silver coin ) from  Emperor Domitianus (81-96 AD). Reverse shows a standing Minerva
Unfortunately the blurred photographies do not allow to say much more, in particular the precise datation,  which is spelled out on the reverse of the coin.
Has the coin been found on a location which is on the northern / southern side of Hadrian's Wall ?
Helveticus

Offline Jakdaw

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2015, 06:29:40 am »
Hi Helveticus,

That is fantastic, thank you for replying. It was found near Stirling, and actually North of the Antonine wall. I will try and get a better picture of the reverse side and post it to see if that helps. Thank you so much for your help.

Jim

Offline Jakdaw

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2015, 07:07:24 am »
Helveticus, does this image of the reverse help any?

Offline David Atherton

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2015, 07:30:18 am »
A denarius of Domitian found in a Scottish field ... wow! Unfortunately the coin is so worn that the dates cannot be read. How I wish I could read the TR P number on the obverse! It could possibly be TR P V. Dating your coin somewhere between 85-86. Style wise it fits that time period.

Whether or not your coin was dropped by a legionary in the last days of the Flavian occupation of Scotland or not is a mystery. It being so worn argues for it being lost at a much later date after heavy circulation.

Offline Jakdaw

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2015, 07:36:14 am »
Hi David,

You sound surprised that this came from Scotland, is that unusual? I am going to see if I can magnify the reverse to see the writing, I will let you know what I find. Thanks for replying.

Jim

Offline David Atherton

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2015, 07:48:28 am »
Hi David,

You sound surprised that this came from Scotland, is that unusual? I am going to see if I can magnify the reverse to see the writing, I will let you know what I find. Thanks for replying.

Jim

Surprised isn't the word ...intrigued more like it.

Domitian withdrew the legions from southern Scotland around 86/87, just a few years after the battle of Mons Graupius. It's interesting your coin may date to that time period.

If you can make out anything more of the legend please let us know.

Offline Matthew C5

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2015, 08:11:21 am »
What a great find!  Over here in Canada, I might get a nice beer cap....if I'm lucky!lol

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2015, 04:55:27 pm »
The legions withdrew, but Scotland was still within the Roman sphere of influence. I'm not sure how common or otherwise Roman coin finds are.
Robert Brenchley

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Offline David Atherton

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2015, 05:45:46 pm »
The legions withdrew, but Scotland was still within the Roman sphere of influence. I'm not sure how common or otherwise Roman coin finds are.

After the withdrawal, Flavian coin finds are very few and far between. Those found in a later context after the Flavian occupation may have been lost during one of the subsequent invasions by Antoninus Pius or Septimius Severus. Which is why I think a coin dated to 85-86 is a very interesting find.

For reference, the book The Romans in Scotland by G. Maxwell is very enlightening.

Offline Jakdaw

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2015, 04:08:07 am »
Here is a link to a document detailing Roman coins found in Scotland, for interest: http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archiveDS/archiveDownload?t=arch-352-1/dissemination/pdf/vol_094/94_133_183.pdf

I have tried to magnify the reverse to see if I can gleam any more for dating this coin more specifically, but so far without any luck, I'm afraid. I will not give up yet though. I must say I find it a very exciting find.

Offline David Atherton

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2015, 08:08:34 am »
Interesting link! Thanks for sharing it.

I don't think we can date this coin much beyond the TR P number. If it is TR P V (which is my hunch) it will date between Sept 85 and Sept 86. The only way it can be narrowed down even more is to discern what the COS date is on the reverse. But I fear that it is irretrievable due to the worn state.

Offline SC

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2015, 03:57:18 am »
Thanks for the link.  It would be great to post this find with the Portable Antiquities Scheme.  While every posting on PAS is a valuable addition this is quite and interesting find.

Shawn
SC
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Offline Jakdaw

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2015, 05:29:30 am »
Thanks Shawn, I looked into the portable antiquities scheme as suggested, however, it does not cover Scotland. So, instead, I have completed the REPORTING-OF-FINDS-FOR-TREASURE-TROVE-ASSESSMENT-1, and returned the form to the equivalent Scottish body. I will let you know how that goes.

Offline jmuona

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2015, 03:54:38 pm »
This coin reminds me of a thing I have been considering for some time. Wear may destroy the legends, but coins are struck and differences between striking force on letters and areas in between do break the structure of the metal. There are methods capable of showing these fractures even if coins appear to be "smooth". Intentionally removed serial numbers from engines and weapons may be recovered, why not legends of coins, even if they are positive, not negative? Anyone out there with the information?
s.
Jyrki Muona

Offline SC

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2015, 07:38:19 am »
Forensic technicians have been revealing obliterated serial numbers numbers from weapons and engine blocks for decades.

However, I believe that the technology is extremely expensive.  It is not basement science stuff.

Shawn
 
SC
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Offline Victor C

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2015, 08:14:42 am »
Anyone out there with the information?

Some U.S. coin collectors use something called Nic-A-Date to reveal the date of worn buffalo nickels. It is acidic (muriatic acid) and can discolor coins. Some people have reported success with mixtures of vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. You can google these methods and find out more information.
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Offline timka

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2015, 03:46:43 pm »
Hi! I can see more or less confidently that IMP XXI is legible on the reverse (pls see my drawing below). It brings us to TR P X on obverse – it can be only one digit squeezed in between the bust and TR P… so, if it is not V as suggested by David, it is X then - which corresponds with IMP XXI. So my assumption it is  IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P X/ob and    IMP XXI C(OS XV CENS P P P)/rev

sept 90 – sept 91

what do you think? plausible?

cheers,

Z.

Offline David Atherton

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Re: Roman Coin Find
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2015, 05:38:30 pm »
Hi! I can see more or less confidently that IMP XXI is legible on the reverse (pls see my drawing below). It brings us to TR P X on obverse – it can be only one digit squeezed in between the bust and TR P… so, if it is not V as suggested by David, it is X then - which corresponds with IMP XXI. So my assumption it is  IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P X/ob and    IMP XXI C(OS XV CENS P P P)/rev

sept 90 – sept 91

what do you think? plausible?

cheers,

Z.


I agree, it's plausible. The TR P only has room for one number, X works just as well. https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-110808


 

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