Interesting new Roman Republic

[Andrew McCabe]

Pics below. At least I think they are interesting. Here is why:

1. bird and TOD - unusually the bird on this coin looks like a raven not a wren. Compare my existing example which is very wren-like:


2. anchor semis, this the very rare Cr.194 not the merely scarce Cr.50

3. C denarius from Etruria, the type always in crude style and this especially so, but with no die breaks which are common on these types

4. from collection Fenelon Farez (1793-1862), a key leader in the 1848 French revolutionary movement. This piece has been presumed a fake for a long time as though it looks struck there are depressions behind the head that might be casting defects, or flan defects, or corrosion defects or overstrike defects, and a couple of experts have presumed it to be cast due to these defects. The only other example of this type is the ex-RBW coin here, from different dies: http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1102976
Personally I believe it probably genuine as the style is absolutely correct for the era and I very much doubt an early 19th century forger could have made such a piece. A corroborating fact is that the piece is on a conical flan that is typical of this era and that to me seems a step to far in forger's ingenuity. The reverses absolutely looks struck. Hence I presume the defects to be flan defects, corrosion defects or overstrike defects and the coin to be genuine. Highly desirable as such

5. Just a nice EF uncial

6. acorn-acorn semuncia, one very rarely sees this with the denomination mark Sigma fully legible both sides

7. very high relief wreath as, much better in hand than pic

8. an EF semis, late first century BC.

9. VAR denarius. Unusually one sees the reverse circle was engraved before the type was engraved within and the type spills over the circle

10. C. Antius Restio sestertius, bucranium (bull's head) altar. But this is on a rather larger than usual flan and weighs 1.87 grams. Undoubtedly ancient and genuine, somewhat flat struck. Is it possible that a quinarius of the same type as the sestertius was struck? Compare the RBW coin, one sees that the bulls head is significantly larger: http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1274971

11. Carisia quinarius. Just nice even wear. Notable that for both the Antia sestertius (if that is what it is) and the Carisia quinarius, there is just a single example of each on acsearch. Pretty rare pieces

12. extremely rare and not properly in RRC, Cr.113 official quadrans with star before the prow, weighing 6.9 grams. Richard Schaefer and I published this type in NC 2011, and demonstrated that all the quadrantes with star before the prow and that weigh 3 to 4 grams are in fact unofficial imitations. So, those collectors of only official Roman coins should discard all their lightweight and incorrect styled "Cr.196/4" quadrantes as being unofficial and search for the official 7 gram type in this specific style. But expect to spend a long time searching...

13. just a pretty well struck Cr.44 quinarius

14. Cr.445 Lentulus and Marcellus. Just nice even wear and well centred for a rare type

15. This is an incuse legend denarius that to me seems like the Bastianelli variant Cr.68 corn-ear type. The Bastianelli type was considered unique and I illustrate it here.

This is from a different die pair and if it is unrelated to the Bastianelli type it is then absolutely unique: the experts in this area (Debernardi, Schaefer) have never seen another example of this type or style.

16. A high relief fine style near EF sextans of the second Punic war overstrike type, which generally come ugly, but this a very pretty coin.

Interesting group...

[Akropolis]

The bird looks like an owl....to my old eyes.
PeteB

[Andrew McCabe]

The bird looks like an owl....to my old eyes.
PeteB

Which bird are you referring to? The bird in the red tray below my note? Or the bird in the pic embedded within my note? That in the red tray pic has a very long pointed beak rather vulture like so not likely an owl. The word "TOD" is related to the Latin word for wren Todillus, or the modern ornithological word Troglodytes, so one or other bird must be assumed to be a wren. In my mind the bird in the embedded pic is wren-like, with rounded features. My new coin in the red tray (coin number 1) is most unlike any wren I've seen. Certainly not owl like either...

I attach an enlarged pic of the coin we are discussing below (sorry again for it being a mobile phone snap)

[Andrew McCabe]

Which bird are you referring to? The bird in the red tray below my note? Or the bird in the pic embedded within my note? That in the red tray pic has a very long pointed beak rather vulture like so not likely an owl. The word "TOD" is related to the Latin word for wren Todillus, or the modern ornithological word Troglodytes, so one or other bird must be assumed to be a wren. In my mind the bird in the embedded pic is wren-like, with rounded features. My new coin in the red tray (coin number 1) is most unlike any wren I've seen. Certainly not owl like either...

Ornithological problem solved. The coin is plated, so the bird doesn't have to look like a wren...

[Akropolis]

"Which bird are you referring to? "
The bird on the reverse of your initial post.
PeteB

[Andrew McCabe]

"Which bird are you referring to? "
The bird on the reverse of your initial post.
PeteB

There were two coins with birds illustrated on their reverses in my initial post. The discussion related to the bird-coin which is illustrated as one of the 16 numbered coins in the attachment with red background in my initial post. The post started with the words "Pics below" and then went "1. bird and TOD - unusually the bird on this coin looks like a raven not a wren. Compare my existing example which is very wren-like:" and embedded another pic to which the attachment was to be compared.

(edited out most what I wrote here as I was breaking Rule 1)

The embedded image has to be a wren because of the etymological link to the word Todillus and because it looks vaguely wren like (and perhaps also owl like)

But what would the other bird be? The one illustrated as coin number 1 in the larger pic attached to my initial post (and also enlarged in a later reply) and which I thought rather vulture like?

[jmuona]

Hi,
I think the first one, "Wren" is most likely a warbler of the genus Sylvia - type Dartford or Sardinian. They are very common around the Mediterranean and often have their tail like that. There are other less common possibilities, but...

The other one is not a vulture I would say, as they all have a very short tail. I think it does look like a raven - another common bird there. Possibly even a crow.

s.
Jyrki Muona
(a keen bird-watcher)

[Andrew McCabe]

Thank you Jyrki.

I have further important information about coin number 15, the beautiful anonymous denarius. Traditionally the incuse-legend Crawford 45 denarius is considered as the first Roman denarius to be minted. In offline discussions with Richard Schaefer and Pierluigi Debernardi I've learnt that firstly my new denarius is a known coin (provenance back to 1963) and secondly that there is compelling evidence for this coin being possibly the prototype for the first Roman denarius. Although this coin is thus far unique, the obverse engraving style matches rare quinarius and sestertii obverses, both of which have reverses that are die-matched to reverses of the Crawford 45 quinarius and sestertius types, those being the fractions associated with the first incuse denarius. That this coin is also incuse legend and of the finest possible style suggests it may have been part of that very rare issue of the first denarius coins in perhaps 213 BC. I would like to think that this may be the actual proof prototype for the denarius coinage. Rather neatly it weighs 4.48 grams or exactly four scruples. I intend this coin to replace the very grotty example of the regular (albeit still extremely rare) Crawford 45 denarius with incuse legend in my trays.

[carthago]

My favorite is the incuse legend denarius.  Very interesting piece.   

[Carausius]

I am late to this party.  A terrific group of coins as usual.  The incuse denarius is certainly special, but I always find myself drawn to your bronzes.  #8, the EF  Semis, simply for its lovely state of preservation - never easy to find Republican bronzes in EF!   #12, the star quadrans, because I happened to download and read the McCabe/Shaefer article on Star Bronzes from Academia.edu about a month ago!  And #7, well, who doesn't love a big, bold Republican As?  Thanks for sharing them.