Commodus denarius variation not in RIC - UPDATE and QUESTION!

[timka]

Hi,

Please have a look at this Commodus denarius – reverse-wise (TR P V IMP IIII COS II PP/Roma seated with spear and parazonium)  it is RIC 5 (C 785), but it has different obverse legend: L AVREL COM-MODVS AVG instead of M COMMODVS  ANTONINVS AVG. There is only one mentioning of this kind  of obverse legend within the whole issue of TR P V IMP IIII for an aureius with Victory on rev (RIC 8b).  

Is this variation with Roma noted somewhere?

(19x17,5mm- 2,95g- 0’)  

thank you for you time!

Z.

[curtislclay]

Your coin appears to be a mule, that is an incorrect coupling of official dies.

The reverse is from after Marcus Aurelius' death, because Commodus is called IMP IIII. That's an acclamation that Marcus never assumed: his last acclamation was IMP X = Commodus IMP III.

The obverse, however, is from before Marcus' death, because Commodus still has the praenomen Lucius. It would appear that when Marcus died, Commodus assumed the praenomen Marcus in honor of his father. His obverse legend on denarii changed from

L AVREL COMMODVS AVG to

M COMMODVS ANTONINVS AVG.

Your coin is published with the same muled combination of titles, but bust laureate, cuirassed only, by Kaiser-Raiss, Commodus, p. 114, 2+: two denarii in Vienna, both illustrated pl. 2, 10 and 12. The two rev. dies are different from each other, and different from that of your coin. Your coin has bust laureate, draped, cuirassed, not laureate, cuirassed only.

This reverse type is more correctly called Virtus seated right, not Roma.

[timka]

Curtis, thank you for clearing up the reasons for such strange obverse legend...I have also got across similar incorrect ob. die related to the same issue on acsearch - TR P V IMP IIII but with Fortuna on rev.

Auktionshaus HD Rauch, lot 481, Auction 95, 30.09.2014

[curtislclay]

I have two coins like Rauch's in my own collection.

Both are from the same die pair as each other, but one axis upright, the other axis inverted. Rauch's coin is from different dies.

[dougsmit]

Is it correct that a Lucius die with that much facial hair is unusual?  I associated the name change with the increased sideburns.  Correct? Is this associated with his becoming senior Augustus or as a sign of mourning?

[Rupert]

Many young people do this for quick results when they want to look grown-up; see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFDmsX1N1Ps

Rupert

PS: I beg your pardon for being silly again.

[curtislclay]

Is it correct that a Lucius die with that much facial hair is unusual?  I associated the name change with the increased sideburns.  Correct? Is this associated with his becoming senior Augustus or as a sign of mourning?

I think you are right, though I'd never really paid attention before: Commodus with beard is unusual on "Lucius" dies, so the beard must have appeared at about the time Marcus died, or just a little earlier.

I wouldn't necessarily consider the beard a sign of mourning, since Commodus never cut it off afterwards, i.e. he never returned to a clean-shaven portrait.

Hadrian, Pius, and Marcus and Verus had set the fashion that the emperor should grow a beard, so maybe it was just about time that Commodus, aged 18 when Marcus died, should follow suit!

[Rupert]

I also think that the beard that Octavian and Mark Antony exhibit on their coins shortly after Caesar's death, may be a warning too: "Caesar is dead, and not avenged yet!" - which would make no sense here since Marcus Aurelius had died of a natural cause.

Rupert

[timka]

Hi!

I got another mule of Commodus TR P V IMP IIII with Fortuna (3,25g -19mm-180’). Its reverse is distinctive enough with the extra fourth stroke (I) that was added in front of the other three strokes (III). The style of this stroke is very different from the other  three – so, most probably this stroke was just added to the existing dies in preparation for the new issue.

Curtis, you mentioned you got two denarii of this issue with Fortuna – do they share the dies with my coin?

The reverse is from after Marcus Aurelius' death, because Commodus is called IMP IIII. That's an acclamation that Marcus never assumed: his last acclamation was IMP X = Commodus IMP III.

The obverse, however, is from before Marcus' death, because Commodus still has the praenomen Lucius. It would appear that when Marcus died, Commodus assumed the praenomen Marcus in honor of his father. His obverse legend on denarii changed from

L AVREL COMMODVS AVG to

M COMMODVS ANTONINVS AVG.

Also, could it happen that Commodus assumed the praenomen Marcus not right after the death of Marcus but after some time -  so that TR P V IMP IIII/ L AVREL COMMODVS AVG  coins were minted not by mistake, but officially for some period of time prior to the formal brief to the mint to switch to  M COMMODVS ANTONINVS AVG? I wonder about this as there are more than few various dies of denarii ( and aurerii?) from this issue … btw,  did you ever get across the bronzes with TR P V IMP IIII/ L AVREL COMMODVS?

Thank you for your time!

Z.

[curtislclay]

Your denarius is from different dies than my two.

Maybe Commodus only changed his praenomen from Lucius to Marcus upon arriving in Rome after Marcus' death. That course of events is suggested by the sestertii, which with obv. legend

L AVREL COMMODVS AVG TR P V

have two rev. types with IMP IIII and announcing Commodus' return to Rome, so definitely later than Marcus' death:

ATVENTVS AVG IMP IIII COS II P P S C, Commodus on horseback, and

FORT RED IMP IIII COS II P P S C, Fortuna seated as on the denarii.

[timka]

Curtis, thank you sharing this little episode of the history that is told so well by sestertii. Did Marcus die in Vienna? ... for sure it took a while for Commodus to get from there to Rome, settle all formalities and develop new propaganda. Until that time an interim mint of TR P V  IMP IIII/ L AVREL COMMODVS AVG seemed to carry on, as per above specimens mentioned in this thread.

Thank you for your time.

Z.

[timka]

Hi!

Let me add one more denarius from that 'interim' TR P V IMP IIII edition - it is exactly like the one with Virtus that opened this thread, but in a bit better condition. Also, it seems to  be from the same dies.

19mm - 3,22g - 0'

Cheers,

Z.

[timka]

Hi!

I could not resist another denarius of this rare interim issue - it is cuirassed only bust with Fortuna on reverse, - as I already have draped and cuirassed one with Fortuna  on rev. - it was posted earlier in this thread. The current only cuirassed bust is another addition to what appeared to be a full-scale issue that was omitted by early scholars.

L AVREL COM-MODVS AVG - laur cuirassed only
TR P V IMP IIII COS II PP - Fortuna seated left

I dont have dimensions of this one as I have not received it yet.



Thank you for your time.

Z.

[timka]

Hi!

Hope the week is going well!

Here is a third seated Virtus/TR P V IMP IIII. Is not is a bit strange that within 1 year and half I encountered 3rd specimen from the same ob/rev dies of previously unlisted draped/cuirassed variant? btw, that is good that virtually no one among the folks is interested in Commodus, so I got it with little effort and no competition      

All three coins where found beyond the limes somewhere in Sarmatian plains, all in different locations. I have nothing left as to connect such peculiar distribution of this undoubtedly rare type with some events that followed Marcus Aurelius death. I suppose that right after Marcus death Commodus had to urgently mint some supplementary volumes of denarii which were utilized as contribution to barbarians for peace. Also, we know that in result of this peace deal thousands and thousands of barbarians were recruited to the Army, and served all around the Roman Empire, including  well known Sarmatian cavalry in Britain. For sure they got paid when were recruited.  Is not it why the most of TR V IMP IIII silver was all settled in barbarians pockets? (btw, barbarians did not care about Roman bronze coins and stocked only silver/denarii, gold coins were beyond their reach, and they used gold for jewelry only).  

Curtis earlier mentioned that the other two Virtus/TR V IMP IIII variants with only cuirassed bust are located in Vienna (Kaiser-Raiss, Commodus, p. 114, 2+: two denarii in Vienna, according to Curtis).   This can be a coincidence, but Vienna and arounds seemed to be HQs for Marcus Aurelius/Commodus campaign against barbarians for a long time. This is where Aurelius seemed to die. So, could that interim TR P V IMP IIII denarii be minted in Vienna as some sort of contingency military mint for the purpose of urgent peace deal with barbarians after the death of Aurelius? Also, have a look at the portrait style of TR P V IMP IIII denarii - it is a bit simplified and less detailed compared to the preceeding and the following issues of the Roman mint for Commodus ... Could this style deviation also hint another mint location (eg Vienna - HQs of Aurelius), especially if it is connected with well known events of this period?

Thank you for your time.

Z.

[curtislclay]

These denarii seem to me to have been struck at Rome.

In my eyes there is nothing about their types, style, or fabric which would indicate production in a subsidiary mint.