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Author Topic: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page  (Read 2814 times)

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Offline Andrew McCabe

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My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« on: March 01, 2015, 03:11:05 pm »
I today finished taking full-tray snapshots of my coin collection, so for perhaps the first time in many years I've a set of photos of my entire collection in a standard, although very-low-grade format.

The collection is visible here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ahala_rome/sets/72157649770756181/

Photos numbered 1-54 are my main collection, what I like to think of as the Principal Coins of the Roman Republic (borrowing a BM book title) in as good condition as I might afford.

Photos 55 - 67 are my Study Collection, that contains coins of numismatic or historical interest but not in great condition. For example my Study Collection contains virtually all my typically poor condition not-in-Crawford coins, and unusual and rare varieties in less attractive condition.

Between them, that's it. I've no other coins. I illustrate below a few pictures from my Study Collection; my main collection has been shown here often enough before.  Of course there's a constant process of upgrading, new acquisitions must generally be good enough to make the main collection which causes something else to cascade to the study collection, and some nice coin (though never the really important not-in-Crawford or R8/R9/R10 study coins) must then find a new home with another collector.

The reason for the black background border is that the album is set up so as to print directly in photo-book format. Hence each photo must be proportioned in A4 size and with a little extra border all round to avoid a white border line being automatically inserted, or worse, a coin being cropped by the printer. The black border fixes this.

Offline Matthew C5

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2015, 04:00:32 pm »
This is unbelievably impressive!  Do you have any idea of the value?  .....other than the fact that it's kind-of priceless in my opinion;)

Offline snapapuss

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2015, 05:38:32 pm »
Do you have a favorite coin?

steve

Offline clueless

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2015, 06:03:11 pm »
Nice indeed  :)

How many years has it taken to build that collection ?

Cheers,

Clueless

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2015, 06:10:44 pm »
Do you have a favorite coin?

steve

Tray 15-16, fourth row third coin. AE Dextans of Luceria. Ceres with corn wreath on obverse. Victory in quadriga on reverse with denomination mark Soooo, meaning 10 unciae or 5/6 of an As. A very large bronze in exceptionally well preserved condition and with the finest engraving style. That's without a doubt my favorite coin.

[see pic below post]

This is unbelievably impressive!  Do you have any idea of the value?  .....other than the fact that it's kind-of priceless in my opinion;)

Converting into local London currency terms, the collection is worth about one spare bedroom in an apartment, or a lockup garage. That's the best indication of value - what the coins might be used for in my local market. The garage option is of course practically useless given that there's a fixed daily charge (tax) for car use in London and parking charges if I would want to go anywhere in a car (which I don't own anyway, nor do most Londoners). So I could swap my entire coin collection for a garage, but I couldn't then afford to drive.


So I take the bus like everyone else and hang on to my coin collection.

Nice indeed  :)

How many years has it taken to build that collection ?

Cheers,

Clueless

31 years so far. So I'm about half way finished.

Offline Britannicus

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2015, 08:45:31 pm »
Yes, impressive! My wife saw me staring at the computer screen with my mouth open, but I was gaping at your Flickr photos.

I like looking at coins in situ in their trays — I only wish I had a key with descriptions for each, but I can imagine how time consuming that would be!

Thank you so much for sharing your collection with us in this format. I like your method of organizing with both "main" and "study" collections. Do you have a black cabinet with forgeries, counterfeits, etc., or would those be part of your study collection?

Mike

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2015, 10:44:19 pm »
The"main" and "study" collection was a solution to a problem akin to choosing between bananas and pears (I don't like apples or oranges, both too acidic for me). I no longer have to make choices between keeping a common denarius in VF and a rare bronze in F. The choices are now between which common worn denarii I keep, or between which very worn bronzes I keep. Much easier. To those who think why don't I keep everything, well if anyone counts they'll see 1200 or so coins and I used to have 2200 including every denomination of every bronze series and every legend variety of every silver coin I could find. One couldn't see the collection behind the masses of worn rare varieties those days. And it was increasingly tough to add new coins. For example when one "needs" every one of the 40 or so legend varieties of Caesarr RRC 480 portrait denarii, one isn't ever able to focus on upgrading your Manius Fonteius denarius type (another series with many obscure varieties). So now my collection is fixed in number, albeit that number has been reducing over time so as to swap varieties for quality and rarity. That explains why collectors see me selling so many coins, the sales include not only duplicates but also non-duplicate of less important varieties which in aggregate help fund some shiny new denarii. For every coin I buy, I sell two, and that involves some delightful choices as to which coins will exit. My condition standards for my "main" collection are becoming ever more severe. But not for my "study" collection where rarity is the key quality.

The Study Collection includes a few ancient and modern fakes, but only where they are especially instructive for example I've a bronze fake that was incorrectly catalogued by the BM and included in its illustrated catalogue BMCRR. I've also got a box of regular fakes which unlike the real coins, I keep and display at home. They range from WRL casts to fakes intended to deceive modern collectors to high quality museum reproductions in good silver.

Offline Matthew C5

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2015, 11:01:30 pm »
Andrew I have a deal for you!  Come over here to Ottawa and you can have my car and the garage it goes with! haha;)

It's very funny how life is relative- in some places if you own a house of stone you're considered rich, in others it's wood.  In Canada land/cars are plentiful, but then in London you have so much more history and layers.

Getting back to the coins, I enjoy how your collection gives-out a real life-like feeling as if you could just reach out and hold a few.

Matthew

Offline carthago

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2015, 11:54:01 pm »
You have your own museum.  Truly amazing!

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2015, 12:00:20 am »
Hi Andrew,

I agree with other posters here. You have an impressive collection! :)

"Normal" people would consider people like us to be psychopathic ("Sir, it's time for your medicine."). :D

Meepzorp

Offline Blindado

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2015, 03:16:45 pm »
That is awe inspiring, Andrew. Thank you for sharing a numismatic vista the likes of which one seldom if ever sees.

Offline Molinari

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2015, 04:53:23 pm »
Thanks for sharing, Andrew.  Really impressive.  I'll keep an eye out for when you sell the Aes Grave from your study collection ;)

Offline Sosius

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 10:04:56 am »
Stunning.  Surely one of the best collections in the world.
Sosius

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Offline lordmarcovan

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 02:36:21 am »
Seeing them all arranged in that tray like bonbons in a candy store makes me want to run them through my fingers!   ;D

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Offline Carausius

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2015, 02:21:20 pm »
A few random thoughts and a question:
First, I would venture to say that most coins from Andrew's study collection would fit into any Forum member's permanent collection quite nicely!
Second, the AE Dextans is absolutely stunning. If I had a second right arm, I would offer it to you for that coin.
Third, among your struck bronzes (lower right corner of the AE tray) is a left-facing prow type that caught my eye.  What is that coin?

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2015, 03:26:50 pm »
Thanks Michael, and to all above in this thread!

My "study collection" of course also represents the very best quality of my own collection after twenty to twenty-five years of collecting. But I've now been collecting thirty years and it's only sheer press of numbers that causes me to designate certain coins for study rather than for display as a "main collection". As I've alluded to before, I'm constantly seeking to improve the balance between various parts of my collection in terms of eras, metals and denominations. So some areas are, frankly, over-represented with high quality coins. That includes struck bronzes of some eras (but not others), and some limited periods in the silver coinage (second Punic war denarii with symbols, Antony legionaries for example). Improving the balance will mean trading these excellent "study collection" coins with other collectors and using the resources generated to boost some weaker areas (for example, rare silver in the 42-34 BC Imperatorial period, and high quality common silver in the 150-100BC era). If I planned on living to 125 years old and anticipated finding the vast resources to "fill-in" all the weaker areas of my collection, then I'd probably be keeping everything but that would imply a collection of 5000 coins in say a half century from now, when I'd be over 100. By that stage, my collection might be approaching RBW's in depth and quality. I doubt have the lifespan and I am certain I won't have the resources to get there (bearing in mind that very many RBW coins were $50k pieces), since I don't buy lottery tickets. So I'm intent on forming the best possible collection I can, with the resources I have, and that means many excellent coins will have to get traded with other collectors to strengthen the less-excellent areas in my collection. I've been following this planned approach for very many years by now. I wonder am I the only collector who does so, both acquiring and divesting on the basis of some grand scheme...

The prow struck bronze at lower left is an L.P.D.A.P. / E.L.P. Lex Papiria series coin. I show below the full series, which consists of two sestertii and four bronzes (pictures not remotely to scale, the sestertii are tiny, and very rare, these examples being from the STR collection)



The bronze coins commemorate the reduction stage of bronze money introduced in 91 BC based on the lex Papiria (Plin. HN 33,46; RRC, p. 77; 596), according to which the as was reduced to 1/24 of the Roman pound (Libra), or about 13.5 grams. Some of these so-called semuncial asses with the head of Janus on the obverse show the letters L·P·D·A·P on the reverse above the prow (ship's bow), possibly for the words lege Papiria de assis pondere (RRC 338/1; p. 611). The silver coins with the letters E.L.P (ex lege Papiria) commemorate the reintroduction of the silver sestertius after a gap of over a century, and may signal the point when the Roman state finished the transition from accounting in asses to accounting in sestertii.

The quadrans is pretty much a perfect coin. Centred, struck up on both sides, the LPDAP fully clear, and with the unusual dots above the letters representing the denomination mark ooo. That's a keep-forever coin (implying that the others may not be). It shows how tough collecting bronzes can be, when it takes 30 years to get one perfect coin and three flawed coins; the As has a perfect legend and upper prow but is otherwise terrible; the triens and semis are both lovely coins overall but in both cases we can only read the last three letters [L.P.]D.A.P. Only the quadrans is perfect.

Addendum: after writing all this, I realise you must not have been referring to these coins, as you wrote prow left! So, I'm guessing that the "prow left" coin is the following, absolutely unique overstrike, indeed the only time I've ever seen overstrikes in the semuncial period. None are listed in Crawford RRC Table XVIII, and none were ever found by Charles Hersh. It's actually not prow left:



As Republican bronzes go, this is completely valueless commercially, but of inestimable value numismatically.

Offline Carausius

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2015, 09:18:12 pm »
Thank you for that enormously informative reply, even though you never mentioned the coin I was actually  asking about!   ;D. The prow-left bronze that caught my eye was the bottom row, far right.

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2015, 01:13:11 am »
Aha ... I see now you did say "lower right corner". Not to mind, it matters not which coin you point to, there's always a story. The non-story is "anonymous prow left triens", and 99% of collectors would stop there. The story needs the full coin set.

First, the set. As they say with real estate plans and airport runway diagrams, not to scale: do not use for construction purposes or attempt to land a plane using this diagram.



(first coin is from the Phillip Davis collection)



(first photo from Collection "B")



(all mine, the triens at centre being the one that caught your eye; marvellous reverse but the obverse relegated to the study tray).

The Vergilia, Gargonia and Ogulnia set comprises five of the six possible combinations of the monograms VER GAR OGVL on the denarius, all six possible combinations on the as, and anonymous versions of the denarius, semis, triens and quadrans. Why just one combination is missing from the denarius set (VER OGVL GAR) remains a mystery, but I rather like to think numerical neatness caused the mintmaster to make six denarius types, six as types, and one each semis, triens, and quadrans; the latter denominations being impracticably small canvases to include the full moneyers name, they went with none instead, and the anonymous denarius binds the series together, and no doubt provided Roman coin collectors fruitless years checking their change for the accursed VER OGVL GAR denarius to complete their sets! Each of the denarii and asses also comes with control letters.

As for the personalities:

Gargonius, in Cicero, "Brutus", 180: But of all the orators, or rather ranters, I ever knew, who were totally illiterate and unpolished, and (I might have added) absolutely coarse and rustic, the readiest and keenest, were Q. Sertorius, and C. Gorgonius, the one of consular, and the other of equestrian rank. T. Junius, the son of Lucius, who had served the office of tribune, and prosecuted and convicted P. Sextius of bribery, when he was praetor elect, was a prompt and an easy speaker: he lived in great splendour, and had a very promising genius; and, if he had not been of a weak, and indeed a sickly constitution, he would have advanced much farther than he did in the road to preferment.

M. Vergilius was Tribune of the Plebs in 87 BC, the year after these coins were struck. The Baker's tomb at the Porta Maggiore is that of Marcus Vergilius Eurysaces, and dates from 50 to 20 BC, thus was probably a Roman citizen freedman employed when young as a slave by our moneyer. Intriguingly the tomb was erected by "Ogulnius, baker, flour-dealer, friend [of Eurysaces]". So it seems reasonable to assume that our monyers, both Vergilius and Ogulnius, owned a baking enterprise and their freedmen, bearing their name worked there.

Thus your prow-left bronze seems to have been made by a low-class orator and a pair of friendly bakers.

Every coin has a story. Pick any coin in my collection, and I've a long tale for you. But ... maybe not today, else I'll remain imprisoned at my desk, writing!

Offline Platon

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2015, 04:23:34 am »
What lead you to acquiring all of those cut denarii?

I have one former Andrew McCabe in my collection. I imagine it never made the grade for your main collection, but it is a well appreciated coin in mine!

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5396&pos=6

Offline Andrew McCabe

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Re: My full Roman Republican Collection on one page
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2015, 05:58:40 am »
The cut denarii came in a group lot from an American collector, who in turn had acquired them from a US coin seller about 1980. He knew nothing about their original origin and no longer had contact with the seller, but as individually they are pretty low value damaged coins, he offered them to me for a very modest amount if I'd agree to write an academic article on them. That article is now written and awaits publication.

On your coin, I'm more or less done storytelling today, but the byline to your coin, written by Joe, came from information provided by me in "The Anonymous Struck Bronze Coinage of the Roman Republic, a Provisional Arrangement" in "Essays in Honour of Roberto Russo", Witschonke and van Alfen eds, 2013. These bronzes such as your coin were traditionally regarded as first century AD, because of their light semuncial weight but I showed dozens of examples of these overstruck on Carthaginian booty that must date from the 212-208,BC period, and analysing the weight of several hundred I showed that they were probably struck on a 1/16 pound average standard at a time when the Romans were generally striking asses at 1/8 pound, so were exactly and deliberately half weight, and corresponded with the struck prow dupondii (Crawford 56/1) overstruck at the same time on asses thus by definition were half weight. Many of the undertypes of coins such as yours are known Carthaginian types from Sardinia eg with a bull and star on reverse, and the official Roman issues from Sardinia of the same time were also half weight viz Crawford 63,64,65, which we can date exactly to 210-208 BC due to them bearing the initials of the known Quaestors, Aurunculeius, Manlius and Cornelius. Hence your coin although not showing evidence of overstriking, probably was an overstrike from that time. Of course the Romans didn't control the weights of the coins they struck over, but the choice of overstrike denomination decided on the approximate standard. In this case they decided to use a triens to overstrike rather than say a sextans. I believe these overstrikes on booty took place in Sicily and Apulia also as well as Sardinia, because there are two official Roman issues from those places (Crawford 69 with corn-ear KA, and Crawford 100 with CA, that were also lightweight and also used booty as undertypes)

OK I guess that was a story!

 

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