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Author Topic: Big "Islamic ???" or "Roman ???" Hexa-Octaeder (Kuboctaeder) type AE weight  (Read 4172 times)

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Offline quadrans

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Big "Islamic ???"  or "Roman ???" Hexa-Octaeder (Kuboctaeder) type AE weight

I'm little bit confused, some literature described this shaped weight as early "Islamic" som other literature described as late "Roman"
some body have any opinion ???

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-118143

Big "Islamic" Hexa-Octaeder (Kuboctaeder) type AE weight
size: 28x28x28mm,
weight: 152,7g,
distribution:
date:
ref:

Best regards
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline Basil

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The weight above ist never"Late Roman" but definitely "Islamic". Weights like yours are used between
7th to 12th ct. The lettering you can see shows 5 uqiya which is  slightly overweight.The weight varies from time to time and is also locally slightly different.

Congratulation to the fantastic condition including the green patina

Basil

Offline quadrans

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The weight above ist never"Late Roman" but definitely "Islamic". Weights like yours are used between
7th to 12th ct. The lettering you can see shows 5 uqiya which is  slightly overweight.The weight varies from time to time and is also locally slightly different.

Congratulation to the fantastic condition including the green patina

Basil

Hi Basil ,

 Nice to hear you :)

Thank your help  +++

Regards
 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline quadrans

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I have some similar but different size in my gallery,

 but this one the bigger..

Some of you have any reference to know which way possible to make a catalog..

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-114324

 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline wileyc

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I have pieced together a number of resources for islamic octagonal weights

David Hendin has a few in his "Ancient Scale Weights" book its the nearest I have found to a traditional reference for Octagonal weights.
-
I have found some articles over the years interesting, Lionel Holland has one published in the American Numismatic Society 1986 titled "Islamic Bronze Weights from Caesarea Maritima". He has a assemblage of weights all form the Caesarea area, he has 602 listed and weighed (maybe 150 in photos).
-
Paul Balog wrote a article "Islamic Bronze Weights from Eqypt" that is a helpful review.
-
I have found a bit of conflicting info as to how to attribute octagonal weights, other than I mostly consider them Islamic. I have had some argue that the Vikings after initiating trade with the Arabs in 800-900 AD, cast their own octagonal weights. Others say weights found along the Russian rivers north of the Black sea as well sat the Baltic were carried by trade.
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I agree with Basil that your original weight at the top is a 5 Uqiyyah or 50 dirham weight (152.7g=5 uncia 30.5g =50 dirhams of 3.05 g) a number of authors including Balog discuss the weight of a legal dirham calculated as 2.97 by weighing a large number of Umayyad and early Abbasis silver dirhams which were in excellent condition. I have also read that many octagonal weights were used up to the 17th century by the Ottomans, I am not clear if they cast weights that late and to what weight standards if they did.
-
cordially
cw

Offline quadrans

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I have pieced together a number of resources for islamic octagonal weights

David Hendin has a few in his "Ancient Scale Weights" book its the nearest I have found to a traditional reference for Octagonal weights.
-
I have found some articles over the years interesting, Lionel Holland has one published in the American Numismatic Society 1986 titled "Islamic Bronze Weights from Caesarea Maritima". He has a assemblage of weights all form the Caesarea area, he has 602 listed and weighed (maybe 150 in photos).
-
Paul Balog wrote a article "Islamic Bronze Weights from Eqypt" that is a helpful review.
-
I have found a bit of conflicting info as to how to attribute octagonal weights, other than I mostly consider them Islamic. I have had some argue that the Vikings after initiating trade with the Arabs in 800-900 AD, cast their own octagonal weights. Others say weights found along the Russian rivers north of the Black sea as well sat the Baltic were carried by trade.
-
I agree with Basil that your original weight at the top is a 5 Uqiyyah or 50 dirham weight (152.7g=5 uncia 30.5g =50 dirhams of 3.05 g) a number of authors including Balog discuss the weight of a legal dirham calculated as 2.97 by weighing a large number of Umayyad and early Abbasis silver dirhams which were in excellent condition. I have also read that many octagonal weights were used up to the 17th century by the Ottomans, I am not clear if they cast weights that late and to what weight standards if they did.
-
cordially
cw
Thank you very much, your very useful answer..
 I try to find some of these mentioned literature...
Best regards
 Q.


All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

Offline SC

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    • A Handbook of Late Roman Bronze Coin Types 324-395.
I was wondering about an Ottoman connection as some of these seem to have been found in the Balkans.  There is very little pre-Ottoman Islamic material found in the Balkans.

Shawn
SC
(Shawn Caza, Ottawa)

Offline quadrans

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Hi Shawn ..
 Thank you your comment...

 Q.
All the Best :), Joe
My Gallery

 

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