FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
Numismatic and History Discussion Forums => Greek Coins Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Andrew McCabe on October 19, 2014, 01:17:32 pm
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Nick
It would be very helpful if you would ask for one or other of the main MFB threads to be stickied, and even that several of the threads be combined. This is about the 10th time I've come to the subject of MFBs and wondered which thread I should attach a response to, and why anyway was there a scattershot of threads rather than a continuing Stickie that would ensure the lesser discussions were not lost.
That grumpiness out of the way, I have some new information from you, an extract from an history book, that discusses MFBs. Michael P. Fronda, Between Rome and Carthage: Southern Italy during the Second Punic War. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2010. Pp. xxviii, 374. ISBN 9780521516945.
See attachments. First is main text, second are two footnotes that discuss MFBs.
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Thanks for pointing out this thread, Andrew, and for providing the excerpts from the book. He gives a really nice overview!
About a stickie, I like the idea but the trouble with doing it is, the many MFB threads, while all bound by the iconography, seem appropriate for specific boards:
1. There's my personal MFB gallery thread
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=92932.0
2. The website update thread
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=80983.msg606005#new
3. Many identification threads (e.g. is this an MFB? I can think of Pantikapaion, Athens, and Methymna right off the bat)
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=97896.0 (Methymna)
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=93629.0 ("Athens")
4. A few language translation threads (there's an Eckhel thread and a C. Weiss thread, plus a few others)
Alfoldi:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=99980.msg618527#msg618527
5. The general "River Gods" thread already on the Classical Numismatics board.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=46877.0
6. Very specific MFB coin threads, like the "Romaion" MFB thread you participated in awhile back.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=95156.0
7. Other ID and forgery threads submitted from other members. plus my own Panormos "tooled" thread
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=96180.0
Sileraioi fakes:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=100141.0
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=99282.0
8. Other related threads, like Panortmos/Sys, Distribution Map, etc.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=95083.0 (Panormos)
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=88972.0 (Distribution Map)
And my websites:
Bronze: https://manfacedbulls.wordpress.com/
Silver: https://manfacedbullsar.wordpress.com/
Gold: https://manfacedbullsau.wordpress.com/
Perhaps we actually need an MFB board! (just kidding) Or, perhaps I can insert links to this reply (when I get a chance) and we can sticky this thread?
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I think it's worth citing Fronda in your intended MFB book, because he is the premier historian of the second Punic war today, and therefore his insights into what coin type commonality mean for historic alliances etc. will resonate more than if the observations were made by a non-historian numismatist. He is pointing out especially close alliances that happen to mirror in especially close coin types. The same point he makes regarding Campania might have wider applicability.
Stickie: It might be worthwhile asking a moderator to sticky the Maps discussion (probably the most enduring) and combining it with the website update threads (they can all be merged in date order), and with any other threads that address MFBs as their sole subject e.g. ROMAION, but not River Gods. Then add on your reply above, and use that as the foundation thread where people can dump further MFB observations as they wish. All this is presuming that a gentle moderator would agree to (a) Stickie (b) merging some threads you point to. There's a comparable long running Stickie on legionary denarii that is probably much less important than this subject, so I'm hopeful.
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I think it's worth citing Fronda in your intended MFB book, because he is the premier historian of the second Punic war today, and therefore his insights into what coin type commonality mean for historic alliances etc. will resonate more than if the observations were made by a non-historian numismatist. He is pointing out especially close alliances that happen to mirror in especially close coin types. The same point he makes regarding Campania might have wider applicability.
Stickie: It might be worthwhile asking a moderator to sticky the Maps discussion (probably the most enduring) and combining it with the website update threads (they can all be merged in date order), and with any other threads that address MFBs as their sole subject e.g. ROMAION, but not River Gods. Then add on your reply above, and use that as the foundation thread where people can dump further MFB observations as they wish. All this is presuming that a gentle moderator would agree to (a) Stickie (b) merging some threads you point to. There's a comparable long running Stickie on legionary denarii that is probably much less important than this subject, so I'm hopeful.
Thanks, Andrew. The common coin types are interesting but we also have cases of rivals employing MFBs contemporaneously, like Ambrakia and Akarnania. Although, the history of allegiances in that area from the 5th through 1st century isn't as clear cut as other areas.
Thanks Dino for the stickie.
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For those interested, here is a preliminary list of all Sambon bronze man-faced bull coins from Neapolis with corresponding Taliercio numbers. I'll add HN Italy at some point. I didn't add coins minted at Neapolis for other areas.
Sambon-Taliercio
560- Ib, 1
561- Ia, 4/Ib, 2
562- Ia, 3
563- Ib, 3
564- Ib, 5
565
566- Ic, 4
567- Ib, 6
568- t.I-IIb, 1
569
570
571- Ib, 7
572- Ic, 1
573- Ic, 3
574
575
576- Id, 1
577
578- Id, 2
579- Id, 7
580- t.I-IIc, 1
581- IId, 1
582-t.I-IIc, 4
583-IId, 4
584- IId, 6
585- IId,10
586-IId, 2
587-IId, 11
588
589-IId, 15
590-IId, 17
591-IId, 18
592-IId, 20
593-IIc, 1
594-IIc, 3
595
596- IIc, 5
597
598- IIc, 4
599-IIc, 6
600a-IIc, 7
601+/b- IIc, 12/IIc, 11
602
603- IVf, 2
604-IVf, 3
605-IVf, 6
606
607-IVf, 5
608-IVf, 7
609
610
611
612-t.I-IIa, 1
613-IIa, 1
614-IIa, 4
615
616-IIa, 3
617-IIa, 17
618 IIa16
619
620-IIa, 20
621-IIa, 13
622-IIa, 15
623-IIa, 5
624-IIa, 18
625-IIa, 26
626a/b-IIa, 27/IIa, 28
627-IIa, 19
628-IIa, 8
629a-IIa, 7
630-IIa, 9
631-IIa, 10
632-IIa, 11
633-IIa, 29
634/c-IIa, 24/IIa, 25
635-IIa, 30
636-IIa, 32
637-IIa, 40
638-IIa, 38
639-IIa, 31
640-IIa, 37
641
642
643-IIa, 21
644-IIa, 12
645
646-IIa, 34
647-IIa, 33
648-IIa, 35
649-IIa, 23
650-IIa, 6
651-IIIa, 1
652-IIIa, 5
653-IIIa, 4
654-IIIa, 3
655-IIIa, 7
656-IIIa, 6
657-IIIa, 8
658-IIIa, 10
659-IIIa, 11
660-IIIa, 14
661-IIIa, 13
662-IIIa, 12
663-IIIa, 16
664-IIIa, 22
665a/b-IIIa, 24/IIIa, 20
666
667-IIIa, 27
668-IIIa, 29
669-IIIa, 32
670-IIIa, 33
671
672-IIIa, 34
673
674-IIIa, 40
675-IIIa, 37
676-IIIa, 39
677-IIIa, 38
678-IIIa, 43
679
680
681
682
683-IIIa, 45
684-IIIa, 46
685
686-IIIa, 47
687a/b-IIIa, 50/IIIa, 53
688-IIIa, 51
689-IIIa, 55
690-IIIa, 56
691
692
693
694
695
696
697-IVd, 1
698-IIIb, 1
699-IVd, 9
700-IVd, 7
701-IVd, 4
702-IVd, 2
703
704-IVd, 5
705
706
707
Ia, 1
Ia, 2
Ia, 5
Ia, 6
Ib, 4
Ib, 8
Ic, 2
Ic, 5
Id, 2
Id, 4
Id, 5
Id, 6
t.I-IIb, 1
t.I-IIc, 2
t.I-IIc, 3
IIa, 14
IIa, 22
IIa, 36
IIa, 39
IIc, 2
IIc, 8
IIc, 9
IIc, 10
IIc, 13
IId, 3
IId, 5
IId, 7
IId, 8
IId, 9
IId, 12
IId, 13
IId, 14
IId, 16
IId, 19
IId, 21
IIIa, 2
IIIa, 9
IIIa, 15
IIIa, 17
IIIa, 18
IIIa, 19
IIIa, 21
IIIa, 23
IIIa, 25
IIIa, 26
IIIa, 28
IIIa, 30
IIIa, 31
IIIa, 35
IIIa, 36
IIIa, 41
IIIa, 42
IIIa, 44
IIIa, 48
IIIa, 49
IIIa, 52
IIIa, 54
IIIb, 2
IIIb, 3
IIIb, 4
IVd, 3
IVd, 6
IVd, 8
IVd, 10
IVf, 1
IVf, 4
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Pighius' illustration for his argument that the man-faced bull is an agricultural allegory, from:
Pighius, Stephanus Vinandus, Silvester Pardo, and Andreas Schottus. 1615. Annales Magistratvvm Et Provinciar. S. P. Q. R. Ab Vrbe Condita: Incomparabili Labore Et Indvstria Ex Avctorvm Antiqvitatvmq. Varieis Monimenteis Svppleti Per Stephanvm Vinandvm Pighivm Campensem ; In Qveis Reipvblicae Mvtationes Potestatvm Ac Imperiorvm Svccessiones Acta Leges Bella Clades Victoriae Manibiae Atq. Trivmphi Nec Non Inlvstria Stemmata Familiarvmq. Propagines Ad Annos Et Tempora Sva Redvcvntvr ; Opus non solùm Historiæ Rom. Artiumq[ue] liberalium sed etiam omnis humani Iuris & antiqui Politeumatis studiosis vtilissimum. Antverpiae: Officina Plantiniana.
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And here is the illustration from La Chau and Le Blonde:
La Chau, Géraud de, Le Blond, and François Thomas Marie de Baculard d' Arnaud. 1780. Description des principales pierres gravées du cabinet de S.A.S. Monseigneur le duc d'Orleans. Paris: Pissot. p.126.
If you've never looked through this book, I recommend you do so. Some of the best coin illustrations I've ever seen!
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What is Pighius' argument?
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More or less an argument that it is not Achelous, with the likely alternative being a general agricultural allegory. I haven't read his argument (Latin) but I read La Chau and Le Blonde (French), and according to Eckhel they are all very similar.
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If you find anymore details about the allegory or a translation of it, please PM me.
What does La Chau and Le Blonde say? (I don't read French).
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I've got a friend doing a full translation now so I will send it along when it is complete.
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I'd be interested in the translation too, and the original. How long is it?
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Very short: 2-3 pages.
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i'd be interested in reading the translation also.
but to me (and i know this is a bit of a stretch) neither of the above images eliminates the MFB as a river symbol.
especially in the first image we could be seeing the bull being harnessed as an allegory for controlled irrigation. this is not as clear in the second image, but it doesn't necessarily deny it either. grain can't grow without water.
as i said, this is a stretch. i'm sure the text clarifies the authors pov much better.
just thinking out loud,
~ Peter
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Peter, That's really the problem with the agriculture allegory- of course it is true (even for Acheloos) but it doesn't answer the question of identity. Even Eckhel said his theory that the man-faced bull is Dionysis is perfectly consistent with the agricultural allegory.
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Ok, so I just reread the manuscript, which I will photograph and post tomorrow.
He first argues that it is not Achelous because it wouldn't make sense for the people of Naples and Nola to have an Akarnanian (he says Aetolian and Akarnanian) God on their coins, so Naples adopted the iconography just like the Akarnanians (Sophocles' description of Achelous does not say he is a man-faced bull, but bearded with ox-like face).
Then he argues it isn't the Minotaur based on the descriptions from Ovid and Apollodorus. Many of the earlier scholars thought it was the Minotaur (he mentions Spanheim and Beger)
Then he argues it must be an agricultural allegory. I think his argument is that the basic breaking of the horn is a symbol of agricultural abundance and also that taming the bull (symbolized with Victory above the man-faced bull) leads to agricultural success. Why else have victory above Achelous, the notorious loser? (Note: Taylor uses this same argument in a recent still-unpublished essay, so I'll have to send him a note that it was used here).
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He first argues that it is not Achelous because it wouldn't make sense for the people of Naples and Nola to have an Akarnanian (he says Aetolian) God on their coins, so Naples adopted the iconography just like the Akarnanians.
i'm certainly not knowledgeable enough to make an intelligent argument here, but the statement quoted above doesn't seem anywhere close to definitive to me.
it doesn't make sense that the Corinthians would use an image of the eponymous goddess of Athens on their coinage either, but there is Athena gracing many of those beautiful colts.
however, even accepting that the image is an allegory for an agricultural deity, does that necessarily eliminate Achelous? i caught your earlier post Nick, just playing the devil's advocate here (and i can even see the argument for Dionysus at least as a fertility god, if not specifically agricultural).
i'm going to check my various Burkerts now and see if he can cast any religious light here.
~ Peter
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I tend to think that Neapolis, Nola and Hyria got the idea of a standing mfb from 1) the mfb of Laos, turning around, 2) the standing bull of Poseidonia. Now there may be heavy religious symbolism, alliances, or just a 'hey that's cool, let's do that on our coinage." I tend to also think that the agricultural allegorical interpretation doesn't hold much water;)
But, I would like to read it in person, or at least in translation. (and, it may have its usefulness).
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He first argues that it is not Achelous because it wouldn't make sense for the people of Naples and Nola to have an Akarnanian (he says Aetolian) God on their coins, so Naples adopted the iconography just like the Akarnanians.
i'm certainly not knowledgeable enough to make an intelligent argument here, but the statement quoted above doesn't seem anywhere close to definitive to me.
it doesn't make sense that the Corinthians would use an image of the eponymous goddess of Athens on their coinage either, but there is Athena gracing many of those beautiful colts.
however, even accepting that the image is an allegory for an agricultural deity, does that necessarily eliminate Achelous? i caught your earlier post Nick, just playing the devil's advocate here (and i can even see the argument for Dionysus at least as a fertility god, if not specifically agricultural).
i'm going to check my various Burkerts now and see if he can cast any religious light here.
~ Peter
I'll happily send you our manuscript for a preview, which discusses all of this in-depth (you know how thorough Nico is!). Only one condition- you alert me to any typos I missed!!
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it's a deal! (or should i say, "deal a it's?") ;)
~ Peter
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Sorry for the delay. Here is the La Chau and Le Blond essay:
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And the last two pages. If I've missed anything essential in their argument please let me know.
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And the last two pages. If I've missed anything essential in their argument please let me know.
But you're having the French translated into English so you can see for yourself, right?
I assume the translation will be correct, but if you post the text I'll be happy to check!
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Be careful , the text is written in "old french" and i guess not very easy to translate... Do not hesitate if you need help (french is my mother tongue).
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The translator is actually a very bright student at my school, and I'm hoping he can complete it soon. I've just emailed to ask about his progress so perhaps if he is having too much difficulty, you could provide me with the essentials, Brennos? I've mostly ignored these arguments because they are so obviously true, but perhaps his arguments against Acheloos are relevant.
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Humm definitely a hard work for your student :P
For exemple the argument that you provide :
He first argues that it is not Achelous because it wouldn't make sense for the people of Naples and Nola to have an Akarnanian (he says Aetolian and Akarnanian) God on their coins.
in fact doesn't exist in the original text :angel:
I don't blame you, again it is a hard text.
I will provide you with the essentials but in a word, the main argument (against MFB=Achélous) is "the stability" of the iconography : The author states that the Achélous iconography is the one represented on the Akarnanian coins. As the iconography on the campanian coins differs from the one on Akarnanian ones, then the MFB represented on the campanian coins is not Achélous, QED . What a perfect cartesian proof ! :afro:
Arguments in favor of an agricultual allegory are more interesting and convincing...
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Ah, I see. So Achelous would not be represented iconography ally with Victory above? That is just like Taylor's argument. Thank you for helping.
We actually suggest it isn't Victory/Nike at all, but a winged nymph, since nymphs are always present with Achelous and there are winged nymphs with Achelous in artwork from Nola.
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interesting.
in Greek art the small winged figure can also represent the psyche, or the soul as it leaves the body. as such this might be another point in the case for Dionysus.
~ Peter
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Hi Nick,
I have sent you an email with the translation.
Perhaps you could correct my english and post it here.
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Great work, Brennos. Thank you very much. I'll be sure to incorporate some of this discussion in the book (and mention your help!), as the arguments against Acheloos are certainly interesting and worthy of mention. Your translation makes perfect sense of the text.
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Brennos Translation:
Bold texts are my (Brennos') personal observations or comments
(1) Refers to the footnote (1) in the text
[P.123 L.1-5] means lignes 1 to 5 on the original text page 123.
Please note that a “Boeuf” is an ox and not a bull which is a “Taureau”.
Important: For simplification, I will use the term MFB for what the author calls “a complete body of an ox with a human face and two horns”.
p.123
[P123 L.1-5]
The interpretation of the MFB as being the representation of Achélous is widely but wrongly accepted. Pighius (1) and Carrera (2) are the only authors that have given the correct explanation regarding the signification of the MFB.
[P123 L.6-10]
MFB as Achélous interpretation is comforted by the work of Abbé Ignarra who :
-> has « modified » (i guess has badly interpreted or analysed or translated) the Trachiniennes tragedy of Sophocle (3)
-> pretends that Achélous is not only the god of the Etolian river but the god of all the rivers (4).
Arguments of the author against the view that MFB is Achélous :
[P.123 L. 11-13]
1° The correct « translation/interpretation » of the Sophocle text is the one of Isaac Casaubon who is more “competent”
[P.123 L. 14-18]
2° The poets have given the name of Achéloss to all drinking waters because it was the name of the king who has first mixed the water with the wine (5) but it is not a reason to give the name of Archélous to all the rivers.
[P123 L. 18 to P124-L.19] This third argument is what I’ve called the “stability of the iconography” argument but I was probably not clear enough
[P123 L. 18- 21]
When a certain way of representing Achélous is first adopted on ancient monuments (including coins), then it cannot be modified afterward. Particularly in all the area of the Achélous river.
[P123 L. 22- 25]
The Peoples (the Oenades), that live near the Archélous river mouth, have coins on which the type is : bearded old head on a neck and not on a full body and the horns are almost horizontal.
[P123 L. 26- 28]
On the coins of Thyraeum the head is beardless and there is a single horn (6).
[P124 L.1- 4]
On several coins of Magna Graecia, we could see several different representations of a MFB (that one pretends being Archélous) and in Sicily there are representations with only half of the body (1)
[P124 L.5- 12]
If one has to choose which of those different representations is Achélous, then we should definitely take the one used on the Thyraeum coins with a single horn due to the mythological story. All the others representations that differ from this precise type (Neapolis, Nola etc…) are not a representation of Archélous.
[P124 L.13- 17]
Explains the well known mythological fable
[P124 L.18- 19]
Hard to conciliate the presence of the victory above the MFB with the fable where Achélous is the loser.
[P124 L.20- P.125 L.19]
The author gives the arguments against MFB as being the Minotaur, as it is nowadays obvious, I don’t translate it.
[P125 L.20- 23]
The coins that have a MFB type, come from Campania and the proximity area. The naturally fertile soil has been made even more fertile by agricultural works.
[P125 L.23- 25]
It is therefore quite natural to believe that people have adopted this symbol to express their gratitude.
[P126 L.1- 2]
Varron qualifies the ox as the friend of the men in the agricultural works. He calls it “servant of Ceres” (1)
in fact the expression “ministre de cérés” has here the same sense as a priest "ministre" of the Christ in the Christian religion. I translate it as “servant” but it is probably not the exact word ( i don't know if I'm clear )
[P126 L.3- 8]
Columelle says that trying to kill an ox is a crime as important as trying to kill a man (2) . Elien (3), Stobée (4), Pline (5) and Valere-Maxime (6) give examples of punishment inflicted for having killed an ox. This proves how the ox was venerated by the ancient Romans. The ancient Romans were not allowed to immolate an ox to Ceres (7) but this law has not always been respected.
[P126 L.9-12 ]
An important sentence hard to translate
If we had wanted to represent the symbol of agriculture and, at the same time, make known the importance of the ox (regarding agriculture), we should agree that we would not be far from the spirit of the allegory in chosing an ox with a human head.
[P126 L.13-17 ]
This is the likely reason why inhabitants from Neapolis, Nola and other Campanian cities have chosen the MFB type for their coins. To conclude, we can name our Cameo : Symbol of agriculture.
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All this being said, I think his interpretation of the poets' use of Achelous is incorrect, especially when considering new evidence on the Homeric texts which place emphasis on Achelous as the original god of all water, which is supported by the Derveni papyrus. Also, the orthographic argument Achelous=King that mixed water and wine, Archelous=river, is not correct when we examine the original sources (literature and epigraphy). All this is discussed in the upcoming book and it's really interesting stuff.
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I am not a scholar in this area but it seems that the themes on many Greek issues were things that appealed to the man-in-the-street or advertised the community such as its produce, tourist attractions and achievements in competition. If the Campanians were good agriculturalists, wouldn't it be reasonable that the MFB coins celebrate excellence in Bull breeding or victories in local prize-bull contests? Perhaps the man-face is a bit of whimsy that makes the coins more attractive or is part of the agricultural motif?
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The man-face on the bull is definitely not mere whimsy, since the iconographic tradition is extremely old and very widespread, and carried a very distinct fluvial meaning, from which other associations emerge, e.g. Chthonic, liminal, fertility, apotropaic,etc. It would certainly appeal to the man on the street for a variety of reasons.
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The man-face on the bull is definitely not mere whimsy, since the iconographic tradition is extremely old and very widespread...
such as this image from the temple of Sargon II, 8th century BC Assyria, which may even be a depiction of the emperor himself. certainly not whimsy!
~ Peter
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Incidentally, we just found the same style headdress on what appears to be a man-faced bull on two late Ubaid seals, c. 3750-3500 BC. This new find is the first example of the iconography in the Near East (Susa), and provides an important link in the Old Europe to Near East chain. Previously there's been a gap (reflected in the draft you have, Peter), but now we have a fairly clear pattern of transference from Old Europe to the Near East, with many sources documenting the contacts between these two areas (beyond the iconography) through Chalcolithic and Bronze Age Anatolia. I am now completely convinced of a single origin of man-faced bull iconography in Old Europe that was adopted in succession by various cultures throughout the entire Mediterranean over the course of some 5 millennia (Old Europe to Near East to Cyprus, to Sicily, etc.) and we have the proof to back it up!
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The Hittites and Neo-Hittites also seemed to make winged bull reliefs that predated the Neo-Assyrian Lamassu. Here is an example of one from Tell Halaf in Syria:
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That creature was certainly influenced from the more eastern tradition but I believe it has the body of a lion rather than a bull.
At some point, I'd like to create another site with man-faced bulls from ancient art outside of coinage, similar to my Pinterest page but more organized. There are a lot.
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Lots of man-faced bulls on, e.g., AM coinage from Mallos. I agree the motif's likely ritual-sacrificial in origin.
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Congratulations to Nick Molinari for the informative and well-received presentation about man-faced bull coin imagery on the ANS live-online net forum on Friday Feb. 5, 2021.
Well done.
PtolemAE
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Congratulations to Nick Molinari for the informative and well-received presentation about man-faced bull coin imagery on the ANS live-online net forum on Friday Feb. 5, 2021.
Well done.
PtolemAE
Thanks, PtolemAE, I'm just seeing this now! That was a lot of fun!
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Nick,
I no longer find your query about the SVESA translation, to which the following was meant to be an answer??
Curtis
"I have deliberately chosen three types to support the thesis that I am advancing, and to make it obvious that the figure of a bull or a man-headed bull can only refer to Acheloios, an identification with which the cornucopia also agrees. The first of these types is common, but quite extraordinary because of the inscription that the bearded bull bears on his back, where SVESA can clearly be read, though the first letter is weak at the top. I showed this coin to Baron Domenico Ronchio, one of our most experienced ancient numismatists, but he responded that he had never seen anything like it, and had no idea how to explain it. But he did mention a possibility that had occurred to me too, that Suesa at the time had perhaps fallen under the domination of Naples, so was obliged to take over that city's laws and to use its coins. One might also conjecture that such an alliance between Naples and Suesa had recently fallen apart, and for that reason Suesa had decided to stamp its own name on coins of Naples that had already been struck and were in circulation at Suesa. For the possibility seems worth considering that the name SVESA was not stamped on the coin from the beginning, but only later, after the coin had already been struck, choosing a space on the coin left empty by the original type, so that...."
Nick,
I don't understand the last clause, "uti nummum contrectani pater". Are those words completely and correctly transcribed?
A couple of other problems or possible corrections:
"segli typos". "selegi"?
It might have affected my translation to know what argument Ignarra is drawing from "the cornucopia".
"The learned numismatic baron's name. I don't know how it would be correctly transcribed into Italian or English.
"explicate". Maybe "explicare"?
"Seusano". needs an additional "s" at end.
"hoc etiam contemplatione". "hac" rather than "hoc"?
"exaratum suit". "fuit" not "suit"
"cuso jam numismatii". Ending presumably "e" rather than "ii"?
Maybe no article here, since you're right that the idea of an undertype doesn't occur?
Best regards,
Curtis